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Oinoloths in MToF?

Mouseferatu

Villager
Could someone with early access to the book, or to D&D Beyond, share the 5E lore on the Oinoloth? I've heard they've made it a type of Yugoloth, rather than an individual title. Is that so? If it is, have they addressed that as a change, or is it more of a "This is how it's always been" thing? What's their place in the Yugoloth hierarchy? What's their CR? Any mention of Anthraxus personally?
 
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Could someone with early access to the book, or to D&D Beyond, share the 5E lore on the Oinoloth? I've heard they've made it a type of Yugoloth, rather than an individual title. Is that so? If it is, have they addressed that as a change, or is it more of a "This is how it's always been" thing? What's their place in the Yugoloth hierarchy? What's their CR? Any mention of Anthraxus personally?
They're presented as normal yugoloths, with no mention of the previous title or Anthraxus. They're CR 12, so they're roughly on par with arcanaloths and ultroloths. They're plague-spreaders, so basically they're weapons of mass destruction and weapons of last resort for the yugoloths. They're basically scaled down versions of Anthraxus, so they can easily be added to previous yugoloth lore as servants of Anthraxus and/or *the* Oinoloth (allowing for these to be potentially added in the future).
 

Mouseferatu

Villager
Oh. That's... honestly the first truly disappointing thing I've heard thus far about this book. :(

I was looking forward to some truly powerful Yugoloths, and some lore on Anthraxus/other unique Yugoloths. Blargh.
 
Oh. That's... honestly the first truly disappointing thing I've heard thus far about this book. :(

I was looking forward to some truly powerful Yugoloths, and some lore on Anthraxus/other unique Yugoloths. Blargh.
I wouldn't get too upset over it. It's obvious that there are still higher-level outer planar beings that they will be covering in later books, such as the main archdevils and the hierarch modrons (both are mentioned in MToF, but not covered). It wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that some higher-level yugoloths would be among those...
 
I am currently trying ot ask the designers about the Oinoloths as its a strange decision I am curious about.
I'm more curious on why they left the piscoloth out, considering it's one of the more distinctive yugoloths. I'm actually fine with these new oinoloths, since they're simple to explain, at least in my mind - they're just "lesser oinoloths", servants or creations of the original.
 

MonsterEnvy

Explorer
Please do let us know what they say.
Got a reply from Mearls. He did not elaborate much on the reasons for the change but did say this about Anthraxus.

"Oinoloth is a type of yugoloth, Anthraxus is a specific and very powerful individual of that type"
 
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Shemeska

Adventurer
Got a reply from Mearls. He did not elaborate much on the reasons for the change but did say this about Anthraxus.

"Oinoloth is a type of yugoloth, Anthraxus is a specific and very powerful individual of that type"
That's an unfortunate retcon there in Mearls answer on top top of the already extant retcon regarding "oinoloths" in MToF.

Anthraxus is an altraloth, formerly an arcanaloth (per the 2e 'Pox of the Planes' article) prior to his transformation.

I'm disappointed that as 5e seems to be genuinely trying to appeal to fans of prior settings and make reference to them in 5e content, it's retconning a pretty massive amount of the lore from those settings.
 
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pukunui

Adventurer
I'm disappointed that as 5e seems to be genuinely trying to appeal to fans of prior settings and make reference to them in 5e content, it's retconning a pretty massive amount of the lore from those settings.
They've been changing the lore since the playtest period (eg. merrow), so it's not all that surprising to me that they're still doing it now.
 

dave2008

Explorer
That's an unfortunate retcon there in Mearls answer on top top of the already extant retcon regarding "oinoloths" in MToF.

Anthraxus is an altraloth, formerly an arcanaloth (per the 2e 'Pox of the Planes' article) prior to his transformation.

I'm disappointed that as 5e seems to be genuinely trying to appeal to fans of prior settings and make reference to them in 5e content, it's retconning a pretty massive amount of the lore from those settings.
I am not sure what else you may be talking about, but given the vast amounts of D&D lore, I think this change to oinoloths and Anthraxus is not a big deal.

Hell, i'm still miffed they retcon'd him in 2e (I think) with the General of Gehenna being the new top dog. I like the 1e MM2 version of Anthraxus and that is about it. I really didn't like all the lore BS they added in 2e and 3e.
 

Mouseferatu

Villager
Hell, i'm still miffed they retcon'd him in 2e (I think) with the General of Gehenna being the new top dog. I like the 1e MM2 version of Anthraxus and that is about it.
Ditto. I preferred Anthraxus as the Asmodeus or Demogorgon equivalent--he might have challengers for the title, but nobody questioned that, until and unless someone dethroned him, he was the Big Cheese. I never did care for the addition of the General, or the origin they gave for the Yugoloths in 2E/Planescape
 

MonsterEnvy

Explorer
I am fine with the addition of the General. But I liked in pretty simple terms. Anthraxus was the ruler of the Yugoloths on the Grey Wastes, while the General was the ruler of the Yugoloths in Gehenna.
 
I am not sure what else you may be talking about, but given the vast amounts of D&D lore, I think this change to oinoloths and Anthraxus is not a big deal.
Same here.

I imagine that since they certainly are going to give us more powerful individuals from the Outer Planes in later books (I mean, there's little doubt at some point the remaining Archdevils and Primus will be detailed at some point) that Anthraxus and/or the General of Gehenna will be fully described at some point. And I imagine that these new oinoloths will simply be confirmed servants/underlings/creations of Anthraxus.

(Also, we get new devils and demons all the time, so getting a new yugoloth is hardly different, even if the naming convention is a bit unorthodox).
 

Savage Wombat

Adventurer
That's an unfortunate retcon there in Mearls answer on top top of the already extant retcon regarding "oinoloths" in MToF.

Anthraxus is an altraloth, formerly an arcanaloth (per the 2e 'Pox of the Planes' article) prior to his transformation.

I'm disappointed that as 5e seems to be genuinely trying to appeal to fans of prior settings and make reference to them in 5e content, it's retconning a pretty massive amount of the lore from those settings.
By the way - I really enjoyed your forward to the volume. You should do more writing for WotC.
 

Shemeska

Adventurer
By the way - I really enjoyed your forward to the volume. You should do more writing for WotC.
Heh. That was written in-character by the character Shemeshka the Marauder, not by me the author who has gone by Shemeska for the last fifteen years or so. I haven't written for WotC since late 4e (when ironically I co-wrote an article on the character Shemeshka). I'd love to write more for them if they wanted to revisit Planescape, but negative critique probably nukes that chance, beyond the fact that anyone I knew inside no longer works there and it seems difficult to put out feelers that you're interested in writing should they ever be interested in covering the material that you know and have written for extensively in the past. Besides, I'm back in school full time and what time I do have to write is largely covered by stuff for Pathfinder (such as Planar Adventures which should be out in two months or so).
 
I wouldn't get too upset over it. It's obvious that there are still higher-level outer planar beings that they will be covering in later books, such as the main archdevils and the hierarch modrons (both are mentioned in MToF, but not covered). It wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that some higher-level yugoloths would be among those...
Reading through MToF now, and I'm surprised several powerful planar beings are conspicuously absent – archdevils, hierarch modrons, powerful yugoloths, archfey. If any book was going to contain such creatures, this was totally the book to do it in.

Makes me wonder if they have plans to introduce these critters in upcoming adventure releases.
 

MonsterEnvy

Explorer
Reading through MToF now, and I'm surprised several powerful planar beings are conspicuously absent – archdevils, hierarch modrons, powerful yugoloths, archfey. If any book was going to contain such creatures, this was totally the book to do it in.

Makes me wonder if they have plans to introduce these critters in upcoming adventure releases.
We have some Archdevils 6 to be exact.
 
They've been changing the lore since the playtest period (eg. merrow), so it's not all that surprising to me that they're still doing it now.
Yeah, but some of the changes (I'd even say most) are adding flavorful lore to creatures that were pretty lacking in the past, like your example of merrow. Yugoloths already had a lot of interesting stuff going on, and by messing with that they are contradicting cool stuff that was already there. Innovation works best when it is filling open space rather than clashing with established game tradition.
 

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