Okay Charge Has me Confused ?

[Istar]

Charge is a standard action right, but its a move and an attack.

So you can do your full movement under move, then move again as a charge and you get an attack as well, so effectively double move and an attack.

 

[Chris Knapp]

Correct, except that I'm not sure its really a double move since you are not using a move action twice, you are using a move action, then a charge action. But, Since a charge is a move, then a basic melee attack, I have always seen it played out as a double move for purposes of jumping distance and ability to cross that extra square of difficult terrain, etc.

 

[Amaroq]

Yes. Don't confuse "move" with "Move Action".

Charge is a Standard Action which allows you to both move your Speed and make a Basic Melee Attack, and then ends your turn.

Walking is a Move Action which allows you to move your Speed.

On your turn, you have one Standard Action, one Move Action, and one Minor Action, which you can take in any order.

So, if your character has a Move 6, its perfectly viable to:

A. Walk 6 squares as a Move Action, then Charge 6 squares to attack as a Standard Action with a normal turn.

B. Charge 6 squares to attack as your only action, a Standard Action, during a Surprise round.

C. Shift 1 square back with your Move Action, then Charge 5 squares to attack some other creature with your Standard Action .. thus not provoking an opportunity attack from the guy you started out adjacent to.

. .

(Regarding C:, one party I play in has a shaman whose spirit companions allows an extra shift as a Free Action ... the party Dwarf Warden loves to take the Free Action shift backwards, then a Move Action shift further back, then Charge 2 squares to attack the creature he started the turn adjacent to!! I get the feeling he does it just because he can, rather than because its the optimal move!)

 

[Istar]

And charge doesnt give you extra movement does it, just gives you +1 TH so maybe worth a shaman leaping about a bit.

Okay a couple of specific questions.

1. The Feat "Two Fisted Shooter" gives you a free action ranged basic attack if you crit, can you do this - if you wanted to - as part of the charge melee basic attack taking into account the charge attack is supposed to end your turn.

2. The new Half Elf winning races articel has a feat that lets you use the delantie power on a charge instead of a melee basic attack, so you could end your charge with something like "Twin Strike" for example at the end of a charge in this case.

 

[Holy Bovine]

And charge doesnt give you extra movement does it, just gives you +1 TH so maybe worth a shaman leaping about a bit.

Okay a couple of specific questions.

1. The Feat "Two Fisted Shooter" gives you a free action ranged basic attack if you crit, can you do this - if you wanted to - as part of the charge melee basic attack taking into account the charge attack is supposed to end your turn.

This is often an individual DMs call. Free actions can, sometimes, be taken after a charge but often the 'ends your turn' means just that - your turn is over and no more actions for you! Given the additional caveat that 2 Fisted Shooter only works on a crit I would say in this case its free action is tied up with the (standard) action used and charge or no charge you would get the shot.

2. The new Half Elf winning races articel has a feat that lets you use the delantie power on a charge instead of a melee basic attack, so you could end your charge with something like "Twin Strike" for example at the end of a charge in this case.

If Twin Strike was your dilettante power then yes you can certainly use with this feat.There are lots of great powers and feats that allow you to use them as part of a charge (the Barbarian's Howling Strike is my personal favourite).

 

[abyssaldeath]

This is often an individual DMs call. Free actions can, sometimes, be taken after a charge but often the 'ends your turn' means just that - your turn is over and no more actions for you!

Charge never one says it ends your turn. It says you can no longer take any further actions this turn. Free actions are actions that can be used at anytime and are not limited to you turn. Combine that with the fact that it says "unless spend an action point to gain an extra action". Well, to use an action point you have to use a free action. So, if charge was talking about free actions when says "action on this turn" using an action point would give you two actions since the act of using it is an action in itself.

There is also the fact that it says "unless you use". Not "you can use", but "unless you use". Like they thought that using a free action was something you could already do.

 

[Amaroq]

Yeah, sorry, my bad on the paraphrase there. (Smacks own wrist)

However, I'd say this is a case of the specific trumping the general. "No actions, unless you spend an action point", is pretty specific: you can use a free action to spend an action point, and thus gain another action ... but unless you do that, you still can take no other actions, including free actions.

The question becomes "order of precedence": does the "no more actions" part of the Charge govern, or does the "free action on crit" govern. Also, if the "no more actions" governs, can the attacker end his turn, then use the free action at the start of the next character's initiative?

Personally, my belief is that the characters should be awesome, so the "free action on crit" should govern, especially as its something you've spent a feat to get.

 

[DracoSuave]

Charge never one says it ends your turn. It says you can no longer take any further actions this turn. Free actions are actions that can be used at anytime and are not limited to you turn. Combine that with the fact that it says "unless spend an action point to gain an extra action". Well, to use an action point you have to use a free action. So, if charge was talking about free actions when says "action on this turn" using an action point would give you two actions since the act of using it is an action in itself.

There is also the fact that it says "unless you use". Not "you can use", but "unless you use". Like they thought that using a free action was something you could already do.

Um, no actions means NO ACTIONS.

Free Actions are forbidden at that point, with the exception of spending action points. We call that 'an exception.'

HOWEVER:

It is clarified on the FAQ that free actions -triggered- by that charge are perfectly legitimate to use at the beginning of the turn immediately after. That's the earliest opportunity, and you still get to do them.

 

[Chris Knapp]

Um, no actions means NO ACTIONS.

Free Actions are forbidden at that point, with the exception of spending action points. We call that 'an exception.'

HOWEVER:

It is clarified on the FAQ that free actions -triggered- by that charge are perfectly legitimate to use at the beginning of the turn immediately after. That's the earliest opportunity, and you still get to do them.

However, the PHB2 FAQ gives an example of a Barbarian using Swift Charge (a free action encounter power that allows you to charge when you drop an enemy to 0hp) after a charge.

 

[Mort_Q]

However, the PHB2 FAQ gives an example of a Barbarian using Swift Charge (a free action encounter power that allows you to charge when you drop an enemy to 0hp) after a charge.

It's a free action, so it doesn't have to be your turn to use it. That's the argument anyway, as near as I can follow it.

Charging ends you turn, but you can take your free action on the next creatures in the initiative order's turn, before they act.