Okay, now I'm worried...

[DEFCON 1]

Agreed. It would also go a long way toward transparency to the customer, which has been quite a sore point since September.

All transparency does is set customers up with the expectation that this sort of available information is what the should and deserve to be getting. And if by some chance something happens when they aren't given this kind of information on a particular project, they pitch a fit.

At no point do 95% of the people think 'well, I've been getting much more information than I really expected... I guess I'm very, very lucky and I'll count my blessings about it and won't be surprised if it can't continue at this pace.' Instead, the first time they don't get it there'll be a mad rush to the WotC and ENWorld forums decrying the company and threatening to never play this game again and blah blah blah.

Quite frankly... the way some people vomit up complaints about every stupid little thing around here... I wouldn't release ANY information about timetables and just let the whiners be presently surprised when they walk into Barnes & Noble and find a new book on the shelves. Now granted that doesn't work from a marketing standpoint... but at least it'll bring expectations of what players "deserve" to be told back down to realistic levels.

 

[Ryujin]

All transparency does is set customers up with the expectation that this sort of available information is what the should and deserve to be getting. And if by some chance something happens when they aren't given this kind of information on a particular project, they pitch a fit.

At no point do 95% of the people think 'well, I've been getting much more information than I really expected... I guess I'm very, very lucky and I'll count my blessings about it and won't be surprised if it can't continue at this pace.' Instead, the first time they don't get it there'll be a mad rush to the WotC and ENWorld forums decrying the company and threatening to never play this game again and blah blah blah.

Quite frankly... the way some people vomit up complaints about every stupid little thing around here... I wouldn't release ANY information about timetables and just let the whiners be presently surprised when they walk into Barnes & Noble and find a new book on the shelves. Now granted that doesn't work from a marketing standpoint... but at least it'll bring expectations of what players "deserve" to be told back down to realistic levels.

And, given the impression they've left that subscribers were actively mislead as to the status and future of the Character Builder, I'd be doing all that I could to mend fences if I was in their position. It's either that, or write off a portion of your customer base during lean economic times.

I know, I know..... Who wants that sort of customer anyway, el ali. It isn't a "vomited-up complaint"; it's a legitimate one.

 

[DEFCON 1]

They write off a portion of their customer base with every single thing they do.

Went to 3E? Wrote off some customers who got pissed.
Went to 3.5E? Wrote off some customers who got pissed.
Went to 4E? Wrote off some customers who got pissed.
Didn't use the OGL? Wrote off some customers who got pissed.
Took Dragon and Dungeon back in-house? Wrote off some customers who got pissed.
Wasn't able to make the VTT? Wrote off some customers who got pissed.
Didn't put the gnome and barbarian in PHI? Wrote off some customers who got pissed.
Didn't make the Character Builder for Mac? Wrote off some customers who got pissed.
Created Essentials? Wrote off some customers who got pissed.
Moved the CB online only? Wrote off some customers who got pissed.


And now... putting Fortune Cards into the game? Just check the other thread to see a whole bunch of people who are decrying that too.

So no... WotC should not bend over backwards trying to please everyone. Because no matter what they do, they're gonna piss somebody off and that person's gonna go scurrying off yelling about how WotC hates D&D and hates all of us too. And all WotC's gonna do is just roll their eyes, as 95% of the time, those threats are hollow anyway.

We're all a bunch of whiny crybabies who get so used to what we've getting that when we don't get it anymore we beat our chests and cry out to the gods. It's quite ridiculous, really.

 

[Riastlin]

And, given the impression they've left that subscribers were actively mislead as to the status and future of the Character Builder, I'd be doing all that I could to mend fences if I was in their position. It's either that, or write off a portion of your customer base during lean economic times.

I know, I know..... Who wants that sort of customer anyway, el ali. It isn't a "vomited-up complaint"; it's a legitimate one.

The problem here Ryujin is that you still haven't said how simply taking the products off the release schedule is not the same thing as altering the release schedule. The very nature of taking a product off the release schedule is, in fact, altering the release schedule as its now different.

I suppose they could say "We hope to release book X at some point, but not sure when that will be." Thing is though, that will ALWAYS be true about ANY unreleased product. If WotC and/or Hasbro believes that there's a market for a particular product so as to make it profitable, they will release that product.

Sure, WotC has made missteps in the communication arena, much like pretty much every company has from time to time. But, one of the biggest, and most consistent, complaints is about "broken promises". At least this way, there is no additional "promise" (explicit, implicit, imagined, or otherwise) to be broken. The fact of the matter is, much of the time, companies just do not have sufficient information. WotC can't, for example, tell us when 5th Ed. will be released. They simply do not know yet. We all know that 5th Ed. will be released. In fact, from an economic standpoint it pretty much HAS to be released at some point. The fact that it is not on the current release schedule though doesn't mean that it is not coming, nor that there's a promise that it won't come.

I'm not saying that WotC is perfect. Far from it. However, we are making Mountain ranges out ant hills here.

 

[Ryujin]

The problem here Ryujin is that you still haven't said how simply taking the products off the release schedule is not the same thing as altering the release schedule. The very nature of taking a product off the release schedule is, in fact, altering the release schedule as its now different.

I suppose they could say "We hope to release book X at some point, but not sure when that will be." Thing is though, that will ALWAYS be true about ANY unreleased product. If WotC and/or Hasbro believes that there's a market for a particular product so as to make it profitable, they will release that product.

Sure, WotC has made missteps in the communication arena, much like pretty much every company has from time to time. But, one of the biggest, and most consistent, complaints is about "broken promises". At least this way, there is no additional "promise" (explicit, implicit, imagined, or otherwise) to be broken. The fact of the matter is, much of the time, companies just do not have sufficient information. WotC can't, for example, tell us when 5th Ed. will be released. They simply do not know yet. We all know that 5th Ed. will be released. In fact, from an economic standpoint it pretty much HAS to be released at some point. The fact that it is not on the current release schedule though doesn't mean that it is not coming, nor that there's a promise that it won't come.

I'm not saying that WotC is perfect. Far from it. However, we are making Mountain ranges out ant hills here.

You are implying that saying nothing is the the same as saying something. This simply is not the case. Stating that a product release delayed is saying something. Saying nothing about it, but removing it from the schedule, is not.

 

[Riastlin]

You are implying that saying nothing is the the same as saying something. This simply is not the case. Stating that a product release delayed is saying something. Saying nothing about it, but removing it from the schedule, is not.

You say 6, I say half a dozen. /shrug

Although saying "It's delayed" would give many people the implication that it absolutely, positively, without a doubt, most definitely will in fact be released. Plus, if it ends up being delayed for a lengthy period of time then more people will get angry that they haven't specified how long, etc.

Either way, they're still damned if they do and damned if they don't. They'll never please everyone all the time but at least by being as vague as possible (by simply removing it from the schedule) they minimize the amount of miscommunication/"lies"/misleads/etc.

In any event, kudos for calm, rational arguments. I definitely understand your point, just personally disagree with it is all.

 

[Atlemar]

I enjoyed the Dragonborn and Tiefling books, and was looking forward to Players Handbook Races: Humans. Humans are my favorite race (I am one, even!). It was taken off the schedule ages ago, and effectively cancelled. The content may show up in Insider somewhere, but we're not getting the book.

So the question is, are CC and MME still coming out, or cancelled? We don't know.

Taking them off the schedule and not putting them back on isn't just "altering" their release date. As far as we know, those books are dead. As far as we know, they're not. They're Schroedinger's Cat books, and all we're asking is for them to open the box.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

Sooner or later the waveform will collapse and we will know for certain the state of these books.

I too hope that they don't go the way of the PH Races: Humans book. I also looked forward to it and was disappointed in its cancellation, especially since the two books we did get were for the PH1 races I enjoy the least.

 

[MrGrenadine]

They write off a portion of their customer base with every single thing they do.

Went to 3E? Wrote off some customers who got pissed.
Went to 3.5E? Wrote off some customers who got pissed.
Went to 4E? Wrote off some customers who got pissed.
Didn't use the OGL? Wrote off some customers who got pissed.
Took Dragon and Dungeon back in-house? Wrote off some customers who got pissed.
Wasn't able to make the VTT? Wrote off some customers who got pissed.
Didn't put the gnome and barbarian in PHI? Wrote off some customers who got pissed.
Didn't make the Character Builder for Mac? Wrote off some customers who got pissed.
Created Essentials? Wrote off some customers who got pissed.
Moved the CB online only? Wrote off some customers who got pissed.


And now... putting Fortune Cards into the game? Just check the other thread to see a whole bunch of people who are decrying that too.

So no... WotC should not bend over backwards trying to please everyone...

According to your list, I agree WotC should not try to please everyone.

They should try to please anyone.

 

[mudbunny]

From the @WotC_DND twitter account:

So for those looking for more info about the #dnd books missing from the schedule, first news will come in the next Ampersand. Likely...

...more conversation to follow.

(Twitter / Wizards_DnD: So for those looking for m ... and Twitter / Wizards_DnD: ...more conversation to fo ...)