WotC Older D&D Books on DMs Guild Now Have A Disclaimer

If you go to any of the older WotC products on the Dungeon Master's Guild, they now have a new disclaimer very similar to that currently found at the start of Looney Tunes cartoons. We recognize that some of the legacy content available on this website, does not reflect the values of the Dungeon & Dragons franchise today. Some older content may reflect ethnic, racial and gender prejudice...
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If you go to any of the older WotC products on the Dungeon Master's Guild, they now have a new disclaimer very similar to that currently found at the start of Looney Tunes cartoons.

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We recognize that some of the legacy content available on this website, does not reflect the values of the Dungeon & Dragons franchise today. Some older content may reflect ethnic, racial and gender prejudice that were commonplace in American society at that time. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. This content is presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed. Dungeons & Dragons teaches that diversity is a strength, and we strive to make our D&D products as welcoming and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end.


The wording is very similar to that found at the start of Looney Tunes cartoons.

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Edit: Wizards has put out a statement on Twitter (click through to the full thread)

 

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The answer to that is straightforward:

Orcs aren't like black people. Orcs are like a racist's idea of black people.

Though these Youtubers may be merely making rhetorical points without any interest in engaging with the real arguments.
I would argue that orcs, at least in D&D, draw more from colonialist propaganda about indigenous peoples.
 

Very well stated. How do you come down on disrespecting players and DMs who take the good parts of supplements that are often called out as problematic?

I think we, as a culture, have not come up with a general practice for dealing with past works that are now understood to be problematic. I don't think there's a simple stock answer for this. It has to do with the work, and how problematic it is, in what way it is problematic, and so on.

Can I take the sex positive and LGBT rep presentation from BoEF without being called a loser in enworld?

For yourself, you can do what you want.

I think with problematic materials, you have to pick your audience for discussion, and craft your presentation with your audience in mind. You may find that EN World isn't the right place to discuss stuff from that particular work.
 

I would argue that orcs, at least in D&D, draw more from colonialist propaganda about indigenous peoples.
You're absolutely right. Orcs and other evil primitive humanoids in D&D have a number of sources:

1) The fairy* tradition, mostly as interpreted by George Macdonald's The Princess and the Goblin, and then Tolkien's The Hobbit. The only parts of it that remain are the names and living underground. Goblins, kobolds, etc have become very un-fairylike by the time they enter D&D.
2) Colonialist fiction like Robinson Crusoe, H Rider Haggard, and the Western, and its transmission into speculative fiction via such writers as Tolkien, RE Howard, and Edgar Rice Burroughs. This, plus the wider culture of the 40s and 50s when Gary Gygax was growing up, which broadly supported colonialist ideas, is where most of it comes from imo.
3) Race "science" writers from the mid-19th to early 20th centuries, such as Lothrop Stoddard and Madison Grant. They were very popular and had a big influence on the authors of the pulps and other adventure fiction. I think this is the source for orcish dominant "genetic" traits, the unfortunate "half-breed", and bio-determinism in fantasy.

(2) is by far the most important.

One can see both (1) and (2) in OD&D, in the entries for orcs, goblins, and gnolls. By 1e, (2) has won out.

*I'm using "fairy" in a broad sense to mean all traditional European stories about magical humanoid beings such as elves, dwarves, trolls, and kobolds.
 
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The implication is clear: if you don't unquestioningly agree with offended people, you don't care about the pain of other people. You either agree or you're part of the problem.
It ignores the possibility that, some of us at least, do care about other people, but either think some of the assumptions that lead to being offended are erroneous and based on one-sided interpretation, and/or don't think that the suggested course of action will lead to a positive result.
This is extremely well put and I'd urge that you or others act on this post to write-up a petition that reflects this sentiment, including its nuance and respect, and articulate a counter-position that's worth our time. For, all the petitions we've seen so far this week are simply too stupid to be believed. I already quoted Venger Satanis's above, and here then is the lastest version (Source):

Wizards of the Coast recently added a disclaimer on all of its "Legacy Products", including all of the previous games published by TSR inc. declaring that those products were supportive of racial, ethnic, and gender based prejudice and stereotypes. The exact statement is below:
"We (Wizards) recognize that some of the legacy content available on this website does not reflect the values of the Dungeons & Dragons franchise today. Some older content may reflect ethnic, racial, and gender prejudice that were commonplace in American society at that time. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. This content is presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed. Dungeons & Dragons teaches that diversity is a strength, and we strive to make our D&D products as welcoming and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end" .
This disclaimer makes a statement of fact argument, and therefore paints all of the writers, editors, artists and consumers of those products as supporting those prejudices, stereotypes and bigotry. This statement by Wizards of the Coast opens the possibility for the players of these "Legacy Products" to face ridicule, and face the labeling as "bigot", "racists", "misogynist", and worse.
It is with that concern in mind that those that sign this petition request that the disclaimer statement be removed. Secondly, that an apology be issued to the previous employees of the company, or companies that produced those products. Finally, an apology be made to the to the "Legacy Consumers and Players" who have been supporting the Dungeons & Dragons franchise for over 40 years.

Bolding in original. I re-bold it because the content/author distinction which the petition makes a point of underlining is completely missed by it.

Now, this is somewhat less idiotic than the last version, since it removed the peripheral name-calling. But make no mistake, at heart it's the same old shtick of confusing the content and authorial levels.

This petition, like the last one, makes the classical fallacy of the intentionalist prejudice. Per the intentionalist prejudice, if a work of art - say, a Riefenstahl movie or a drama by the Marquis de Sade - is characterized as glorifying certain causes or actions (racism, the debasing of women), then ipso faco the author who produced that content must, at the sheer level of autobiography, be a racist or sexist. Not only is this is logically invalid - there's at least one if not several missing premises here - it's also historically false. Riefenstahl was instrumentalizing the causes she depicted for personal gain--no small feat for a female film-maker in her day--as opposed to being unwittingly co-opted by them; historians to this day debate the nature of her personal convictions. De Sade used his vignettes to illustrate the power politics of his day (pre- and post-1789), and was equally critical of all participants involved, regardless of gender.

Here's the point. You can both say that certain works of art are racist or sexist at the content level, and advise caution in their reception, while not slandering their authors or consumers with those epithets. For, as everyone knows, you only become full-on sexist or racist if you espouse those views at the personal, intentional level. And nothing of the kind is insinuated by a disclaimer about content.

This isn't anything new--we've seen content disclaimers on adult fiction and VHS tapes for decades--and to pretend otherwise is quite the feat of cognitive dissonance.

Hence, to harp on about how "insulting" the disclaimer is to authors of old and fans of now is spectacularly stupid. It replicates the exact "outrage brigade" knee jerk reaction that the same persons signing this petition laugh at when they see it engaged elsewhere. What repels me morally about the petition is not its idiocy but its hypocrisy.
 
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You're absolutely right. Orcs and other evil humanoids in D&D have a number of sources:

1) The fairy tradition, mostly as retold by George Macdonald and then Tolkien. I think the only part of it that remains is living underground. Goblins, kobolds, etc have become very un-fairy like by the time they enter D&D.
2) Colonialist era fiction like Robinson Crusoe, H Rider Haggard, and the Western, and its transmission into speculative fiction such as Tolkien, RE Howard, and Edgar Rice Burroughs. This is where most of it comes from.
3) Race "science". Writers like Lothrop Stoddard and Madison Grant had a very wide audience in the early 20th century. They also influenced the writers of (2). This, I think, is where the idea of orcish "genetic" traits being dominant comes from.

(2) is by far the most important.

EDIT: Looking at Chainmail and OD&D, I have a feeling that the use of the word "tribes" to describe orc societies was critical to them and other evil humanoids becoming a colonialist's idea of non-white people in 1e and later.
Which is why I don’t understand the backlash.

Nobody is arguing that you can’t depict colonialist atrocities (evil campaigns are a thing) or speculate on the psychology/biology of a non-human species. What they are arguing is that orcs, drow, vistani, mongrelfolk, etc are drawing in whole or part from real world racist stereotypes that some players of certain backgrounds find disturbing and repulsive.

Telling these players “you’re the real racist” simply for voicing their discomfort comes across as entitled, privileged, and unfair gatekeeping.


Hence, to harp on about how "insulting" the disclaimer is to authors of old and fans of now is spectacularly stupid. It replicates the exact "outrage brigade" knee jerk reaction that the same persons signing this petition laugh at when they see it engaged elsewhere. What repels me morally about the petition is not its idiocy but its hypocracy.
We see this same phenomenon all over nerd culture and on both sides of the debate. If you’re not drinking the kool-aid of whatever is politically expedient at the time, then you’re an SJW or alt-right bigot who must be canceled. People refuse to acknowledge creepy naughty word when it aligns with (or at least doesn’t question) their political views. I’ve seen this time and time again in comic books, cartoons, and YA novels.
 
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I am afraid WotC doesn't really worry about the people maybe be offended accidentally, but D&D could be victim of toxic players in future online roleplay videogames. You know there are Grand Thief Auto roleplay servers, where the players want to create stories with their characters. Let's imagine an "Urban Arcana" version of GTA, and let's add cyberave/cyberpunk tech. Can you imagine the troubles caused by toxic gamers showing hate against fictional races (drows or orcs). It wouldn't be fault by WotC but the potential damage against the prestige of those games would be really serious. It would be something like the hooligans in the British soccer.


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How does everyone feel about McDonald’s putting a label on their coffee saying it’s hot because 1 person?

What parallels can be drawn from that to this discussion?

Do you know the real history of that case?

The woman was sitting in a parked car, that her son was driving, and spilled her coffee. She was hospitalized with 3rd degree burns across her thighs and crotch, requiring skin graft surgery. That was because the coffee was being kept at a temperature of 180 or 190 degres Farenheit, or 82 to 87 degrees Celsius.

To give an idea, the average range that Starbucks is reported to serve their coffee is between 150 and 170 degrees. And water boils at 212.

There were also 700 other cases in the decade before Mrs. Liebeck's case.


So... the parallels are non-existant since no one was permanently disfigured or hospitalized. And one person is very different that 700 and 1 people.
 

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