Oldest campaign setting(s)?

[Mark]

Tough call to make. Largely it's based on whether you think the oldest was whatever was available and widely distributed, or what might have been played by "those in the know"...

Round these parts, I'd have to give the good Col_Pladoh the right to make the call, since, try as I have to coax him this way, Mr. Arneson has never openly, if at all, posted here.

I know that the Greyhawk supplement came out ahead of the Blackmoor supplement for D&D, and I also had a boxed set of Empire of the Petal Throne (loved those spill-proof maps), though that was after the other two.

heh heh

I began building my own setting in 1978, so I suppose it qualifies as one of the oldest. We'll see if it holds up. Certainly mine hasn't ever had any real distribution. I'll try to change that, eh?

 

[Altalazar]

Ok, so anyone have dates for this?

Blackmoore?

Greyhawk?

Mystara?

 

[MythandLore]

Everyone ignores my posts, go ahead keep ignoring.

Original D&D Three Volume Boxed Set
Release Date 1974

ONCE UPON A TIME, long, long ago there was a little
group known as the Castle and Crusade Society. Their
fantasy rules were published, and to this writer's
knowledge, brought about much of the current interest in
fantasy wargaming. For a time the group grew and
prospered, and Dave Arneson decided to begin a
medieval fantasy campaign game for his active Twin
Cities club. From the map of the "land"of the "Great
Kingdom"and environs - the territory of the C &C
Society - Dave located a nice bog wherein to nest the
weird enclave of "Blackmoor", a spot between the "Great
Kingdom"and the fearsome "Egg of Coot". From the
CHAINMAIL fantasy rules he drew ideas for a far more
complex and exciting game, and thus began a campaign
which still thrives as of this writing! In due course the
news reached my ears, and the result is what you have in
your hands at this moment.While the C &C Society is no
longer, its spirit lives on, and we believe that all
wargamers who are interested in the medieval period, not
just fantasy buffs, will enjoy playing DUNGEONS and
DRAGONS. Its possibilities go far beyond any previous
offerings anywhere!

While it is possible to play a single game, unrelated to any other game events past or future, it is the campaign for which these rules are designed. It is relatively simple to set up a fantasy campaign, and better still, it will cost almost nothing. In fact you will not even need miniature figures, although their occasional employment is recommended for real spectacle when battles are fought. A quick glance at the Equipment section of this booklet will reveal just how little is required.The most extensive requirement is time. The campaign referee will have to have sufficient time to meet the demands of his players, he will have to devote a number of hours to laying out the maps of his "dungeons"and upper terrain before the affair begins. The third booklet of this set will be of great help in this respect, for a number of helpful suggestions regarding how to accomplish it all have been given in order to help you accomplish the task with a minimum of time and effort. There should be no want of players, for there is unquestionably a fascination in this fantasy game - evidenced even by those who could not by any stretch of the imagination be termed ardent wargamers. The longevity of existing campaigns (notably "Blackmoor" in the Twin Cities and "Greyhawk" in Lake Geneva) and the demand for these rules from people outside these campaigns point towards a fantastic future. Tactical Studies Rules believes that of all forms of wargaming, fantasy will soon become the major contender for first place. The section of this booklet entitled Scope will provide an idea of just how many possibilities are inherent in DUNGEONS and DRAGONS.

These rules are strictly fantasy. Those wargamers who lack imagination,those who don't care for Burroughs'Martian adventures where John Carter is groping through black pits, who feel no thrill upon reading Howard's Conan saga, who do not enjoy the de Camp &Pratt fantasies or Fritz Leiber's Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser pitting their swords against evil sorceries will not be likely to find DUNGEONS and DRAGONS to their taste. But those whose imaginations know no bounds will find that these rules are the answer to their prayers. With this last bit of advice we invite you to read on and enjoy a "world" where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!

-E.Gary Gygax

 

[MythandLore]

Don't mind me, I'm just posting more stuff to ignore.

D&D Supplement I: Greyhawk
Release Date 1975

One cannot properly introduce a supplement to an
existing body of rules which already contain both a
foreword and an introduction; yet it is absolutely
necessary to make certain that the prospective buyer
understands that this volume cannot stand by itself. It is
expressly written to augment the DUNGEONS &
DRAGONS rules set, and if you do not possess the set
there is no point in buying this supplemental booklet
alone. However, it does no harm to read further, it is
hoped that if you do skim through the pages which follow
you will become so interested as to buy both "D & D"
and this addition! If you enjoy fantasy you will never be
sorry you were introduced to the swords and sorcery of
DUNGEONS & DRAGONS games. If you already
own a set of "D & D" then buy this booklet right now, for
what is herein adds immeasurably to the existing game.
There are new characters, new abilities, more spells to
use, a horde of new monsters, heaps of new magical
treasure, and various additions to the suggestions and
rules tor adventuring above and below the ground.

The material contained herein relates directly to the contents and format of DUNGEONS & DRAGONS. The material in "GREYHAWK" is noted so as to distinguish new rules, additions to existing rules, and suggested changes. This material is laid out so that what pertains to Men & Magic is covered first, then new material pertaining to Monsters & Treasure is dealt with, and finally details of supplementary items for The Underworld & Wilderness Adventures are detailed.

Fantasy being what it is, it appears that there will never be an end to the develop-ment of fresh ideas, and this booklet is what we hope will be but the first of a long series of periodic supplements to add to your enjoyment of DUNGEONS & DRAGONS. There will be at least one more, for Dave Arneson, co-author of the original work, is currently in the catacombs beneath his tower preparing the second supplement. Among other tilings this work will reveal to a breathlessly waiting world many of the horrid things which are part of the "Blackmoor" campaign and how to make it just as horrible in your own game. Meanwhile, find out what the devious minds behind "Greyhawk Castle" have been dreaming up for the amusement of the participants of that campaigning. . .

- E. Gary Gygax

 

[Col_Pladoh]

From what I have read, I always thought that MAR Barkers Empire of the Petal Throne was the oldest published setting. For some reason, I want to think that TSR published it, before any other setting was released. I could be wrong though.

Right you are! TSR Hobbies, Inc. published Phil Barker's complete game, with the World of Tekumel, prior to the publication of the World of Greyhawk.

This was not a D&D-game world setting of course, it was for Empire of the Petal Throne as noted. That system bowwowed mainly from D&D, though.

Gary

 

[Dahak]

So, there are two campaign settings that I've heard about, only recently, here and there that are considered classic settings. They are Blackmoor and Mystara. I had always thought of the WoG as the oldest setting. So, which is the oldest setting? Greyhawk? Mystara? Blackmoor?

Also, which set of rules applied to them. It seems like Mystara was an OD&D setting. What about Blackmoor?

Blackmoor is older as far as being a published setting. I think Judges Guild released it in the late 70s.

Greyhawk as a published setting came out as a little folio in 1980, IIRC, though the published setting is vastly different from EGG's home campaign (which according to sources such as the Epic of Ærth companion was more Earth-like in geography).

Mystara has existed (without the name Mystara) since 1981, when the Grand Ducky of Karameikos was introduced in the D&D Expert Rulebook, and the setting expanded upon in module X1 The Isle of Dread. The various D&D boxed sets, modules and Gazetteers greatly expanded the setting, and it's one of the more indepth settings ever published. In the early 1990s, for whatever reason, they named the setting "Mystara". This is somewhat odd, because for years prior the setting was presumed by most to be an antideluvian Earth setting (as indicated in the old D&D Immortals set). At any rate, the latter day TSR regime decided to repackage the setting as an AD&D (2nd Edition) setting aimed at younger gamers, and it quickly fell from grace.

On a side note, in the late 80s, Dave Arneson wrote a series of Blackmoor modules for TSR that officially placed them as an ancestor of the D&D World (i.e. Mystara), accessible through time travel magics.

 

[Dristram]

Great info. all!

Let me see if I have this straight:

As far as D&D fantasy settings go, Blackmoor was the first published setting (1974). Although it's situated between the Great Kingdom and the Egg of Coot(?), so it makes it seem like Blackmoor is actually a country. And I take it the Great Kingdom and Egg of Coot were not officially published.

So the first published world setting would be Greyhawk (1975). Is the Blackmoor on Oerth the same as the original? It has a Great Kingdom as well. But no Egg of Coot

And then Mystara was first becoming it's own setting when the Grand Ducky of Karameikos was introduced in the OD&D Expert Rulebook (1981). And didn't officially become Mystara until the early 1990's.

If this is correct, the dates would be:
Blackmoor - 1974
Greyhawk - 1975
Mystara - 1981 (or officially early 1990's)

Cool

 

[ScottyG]

The early supplement books, Greyhawk and Blackmoor, were not campaign settings, They were rule changes and additions. I believe Blackmoor was the first campaign setting for D&D to be played in, and published. Dave was using Blackmoor before D&D for miniature battles in his Chainmail fantasy setting, and then just added the D&D elements as they were developed. The first dungeon adventure in the history of the game occured when Dave took a group of his players and a body of men-at-arms (a party of 30 or so) into the dungeons below Blackmoor castle. The only survivor, The Great Svenny, is still a figure in the Blackmoor campaign. Blackmoor was published before Greyhawk as the first fantasy campaign by judges guild. Blackmoor and Greyhawk were both named after the main dungeons where most of the early gaming took place, just small pieces of the greater worlds.

 

[trancejeremy]

Yeah, from what I've seen of them, the original Greyhawk & Blackmoor supplements just had new classes, monsters, spells, magic items, etc. Not any setting material.

There's also Metamorphasis Alphas, which has some fairly sparse setting info and was published in 1976...

 

[mythusmage]

Blackmoor and Greyhawk were house settings, established so Arneson and Gygax respectively could have a place to set their games. The expectation back then was that DnD groups would create their own campaign settings. Mid-Kimia was one such place.

M.A.R. Barker's Tekumel started out as a place for Phil's stories. When he started playing DnD it became the setting for the games he ran. Players in his game suggested he send it in to TSR as a possible DnD campaign setting. Our own Col. Pla_doh liked what he saw, but decided it would not make a good DnD world. So he rewrote it, and Empire of the Petal Throne was born.

So Blackmoor was the first world established for the new fantasy game, Greyhawk was the first officially published for that same game, and Tekumel was the first world submitted for publication by TSR.

All this from memory.

Alan