IMC, I only allow relatively low-power items (weak potions and scrolls) to be bought "over the counter". For other stuff, the monetary investment is too big and the market too uncertain to make them just in case someone comes along and wants to buy one - even a measly +1 weapon requires an investment of 1,000 gp, which is enough to support an "extravagant" lifestyle for five months. Such items are only made on commission, and thus they take a while to buy. Of course, finding someone to make a +1 sword is no big deal (I use the town gp limits to determine this), but for the really heavy-duty stuff you need to go to somewhere like Waterdeep.
? on buying magic items
- Thread starter Vexed
- Start date
I would have given them a reputation in waterdeep as "good customers".
Now you can take in one of two (or both) directions. 1) the merchants know them as having lots of money and want to gain their business so they give them a discount. n your case, i would take #2) the merchants see them as wanting too much- so they milk them for all they are worth. and since they have so much money at their disposal, they probably would not mind paying an extra hundred or so for a magic item they really want.
Oh yeah- a third route would be to have a worse reputation-having lots of money. In a town like waterdeep, there is bound to be eyes and ears- and when word gets around that you are spending money like there was no tomorrow- I am pretty sure a few thieve would be headed your way trying to make a couple bucks...
The DMG is a guide- and so you can set the price to whatever you deem necessary. don't just let them flip open a book and say "I have a right to buy this item at this price..." NO- tell them what is teher and how much it is. Screw up their calculaltions and make them choose what they want, and what they need...
Now you can take in one of two (or both) directions. 1) the merchants know them as having lots of money and want to gain their business so they give them a discount. n your case, i would take #2) the merchants see them as wanting too much- so they milk them for all they are worth. and since they have so much money at their disposal, they probably would not mind paying an extra hundred or so for a magic item they really want.
Oh yeah- a third route would be to have a worse reputation-having lots of money. In a town like waterdeep, there is bound to be eyes and ears- and when word gets around that you are spending money like there was no tomorrow- I am pretty sure a few thieve would be headed your way trying to make a couple bucks...
The DMG is a guide- and so you can set the price to whatever you deem necessary. don't just let them flip open a book and say "I have a right to buy this item at this price..." NO- tell them what is teher and how much it is. Screw up their calculaltions and make them choose what they want, and what they need...
Larcen
Explorer
Last time the party was in Waterdeep, and wanted to buy a crap-load of magic stuff, I quickly threw together the calculation below to determine if they found the items they were looking for. (I didn't want to wade thru tons of rules and role-play countless negotiations....they wanted to buy and sell a LOT of stuff.)
BUYING ITEMS:
Step #1: Take the GP value listed in the DMG for the item and get the square root of it using a calculator. The result is the % chance that the item will NOT be found in a week of searching for it. Rolling high will be good for the PCs.
Step #2: If the PCs want to try Gather Information to improve their chances, make them make the GI rolls at a -10. Take their best result and add it to the search roll. Note a minus GI roll can result in their failure chances going UP for that week.
Step #3: Roll d% every week until the item is found. On the week the PC succeeds in finding what he wants, randomly roll to see what day of the week it was. This will tell you exactly how long, in days, it took to find the item...if that is important to anyone.
This worked well as it resulted in percentages like the ones you see below, (not including #2 above).
50 GP item = 7% chance of not finding it in one week.
750 GP item = 27%
2000 GP item = 44%
5,000 GP item = 70%
8,000 GP item = 89%
10,000 GP item = 100% chance of not finding the item. It must be commissioned, or the Gather Info roll better kick in.
This quick calculation actually worked very smoothly and the players liked it. Of course I made it VERY clear to them that this method was only used because they happened to be in Waterdeep. Anywhere else and their chances would drop drastically. As it was, it was kinda fun making the rolls and then saying something like "No, Mr. Half-Orc, you didn't find the +2 greataxe you are looking for this week. Are you going to hang around Waterdeep longer and keep searching?" The PCs eventually just decided to just MOVE INTO Waterdeep, see below!
SELLING ITEMS:
The party, while they were there, also wanted to sell a crap-load of stuff. I was again forced to come up with something quickly since they of course wanted full DMG market price for their goods. Because it was Waterdeep, I allowed them to do this:
Step #1: To get the best price, instead of selling expensive items out of a fly-by-night wagon, the PCs better find a consignment shop. Or make a shop of their own, like my PCs decided to do. Building rental and all. They basically moved in, set up a storefront, and decided to make Waterdeep their base of operations. They also had a lot of non-magic military stuff to sell, so they promoted the store as an all-purpose adventuring shop. They called it "The Wayward Warrior" and soon adopted the name for the party itself, as they by no means were retiring to tend to a store forever. But I digress...
Step #2: Once the shop is in place, have them set whatever price they want for each individual magic item. Have them give this to you as a percentage of the item's market value. This will be the base chance that the item WON'T sell in a given week. Again, rolling high will be good for the PCs.
Step #3: Choose one PC to be the primary store merchant or manager and let that PC make a Diplomacy roll for the week. The result will be a bonus to the % roll below. (BTW, in our group this same PC was also the guy who got stuck minding the store while everyone else was off adventuring. The player didn't mind as he had another PC.) If your group used a consignment shop, use the shops owner's Diplomacy roll. Hey, the guy needs to earn his commission somehow.
To make things easy for myself, I applied the same bonus for all items being sold in a given week instead of rolling each item a different bonus. Again, they had a lot to sell.
Step #4: Make minor adjustments to #3 based on anything else the PCs propose like posted ads around town, or getting the party cleric's church involved in advertising clerical stuff, or what have you. But don't go crazy. Give them +5 thru +15 % tops. This will also be a bonus to the % roll below.
Step #5: Roll d% once a week until the item is sold. This has the effect that if the PCs want to be greedy they will need to wait for the item to sell at their asking price...unless they get lucky. Note that regardless of what the actual roll in step #5 was, the PC will only get the percentage they specified in #2 above. That was the price tag they put on the item and no one is going to give them more than what they asked.
And there you have it. Like I said, it was quick and dirty but they liked it, I liked it, and seemed fair at the time. YMMV.
BUYING ITEMS:
Step #1: Take the GP value listed in the DMG for the item and get the square root of it using a calculator. The result is the % chance that the item will NOT be found in a week of searching for it. Rolling high will be good for the PCs.
Step #2: If the PCs want to try Gather Information to improve their chances, make them make the GI rolls at a -10. Take their best result and add it to the search roll. Note a minus GI roll can result in their failure chances going UP for that week.
Step #3: Roll d% every week until the item is found. On the week the PC succeeds in finding what he wants, randomly roll to see what day of the week it was. This will tell you exactly how long, in days, it took to find the item...if that is important to anyone.
This worked well as it resulted in percentages like the ones you see below, (not including #2 above).
50 GP item = 7% chance of not finding it in one week.
750 GP item = 27%
2000 GP item = 44%
5,000 GP item = 70%
8,000 GP item = 89%
10,000 GP item = 100% chance of not finding the item. It must be commissioned, or the Gather Info roll better kick in.
This quick calculation actually worked very smoothly and the players liked it. Of course I made it VERY clear to them that this method was only used because they happened to be in Waterdeep. Anywhere else and their chances would drop drastically. As it was, it was kinda fun making the rolls and then saying something like "No, Mr. Half-Orc, you didn't find the +2 greataxe you are looking for this week. Are you going to hang around Waterdeep longer and keep searching?" The PCs eventually just decided to just MOVE INTO Waterdeep, see below!
SELLING ITEMS:
The party, while they were there, also wanted to sell a crap-load of stuff. I was again forced to come up with something quickly since they of course wanted full DMG market price for their goods. Because it was Waterdeep, I allowed them to do this:
Step #1: To get the best price, instead of selling expensive items out of a fly-by-night wagon, the PCs better find a consignment shop. Or make a shop of their own, like my PCs decided to do. Building rental and all. They basically moved in, set up a storefront, and decided to make Waterdeep their base of operations. They also had a lot of non-magic military stuff to sell, so they promoted the store as an all-purpose adventuring shop. They called it "The Wayward Warrior" and soon adopted the name for the party itself, as they by no means were retiring to tend to a store forever. But I digress...
Step #2: Once the shop is in place, have them set whatever price they want for each individual magic item. Have them give this to you as a percentage of the item's market value. This will be the base chance that the item WON'T sell in a given week. Again, rolling high will be good for the PCs.
Step #3: Choose one PC to be the primary store merchant or manager and let that PC make a Diplomacy roll for the week. The result will be a bonus to the % roll below. (BTW, in our group this same PC was also the guy who got stuck minding the store while everyone else was off adventuring. The player didn't mind as he had another PC.) If your group used a consignment shop, use the shops owner's Diplomacy roll. Hey, the guy needs to earn his commission somehow.
To make things easy for myself, I applied the same bonus for all items being sold in a given week instead of rolling each item a different bonus. Again, they had a lot to sell.Step #4: Make minor adjustments to #3 based on anything else the PCs propose like posted ads around town, or getting the party cleric's church involved in advertising clerical stuff, or what have you. But don't go crazy. Give them +5 thru +15 % tops. This will also be a bonus to the % roll below.
Step #5: Roll d% once a week until the item is sold. This has the effect that if the PCs want to be greedy they will need to wait for the item to sell at their asking price...unless they get lucky. Note that regardless of what the actual roll in step #5 was, the PC will only get the percentage they specified in #2 above. That was the price tag they put on the item and no one is going to give them more than what they asked.
And there you have it. Like I said, it was quick and dirty but they liked it, I liked it, and seemed fair at the time. YMMV.
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Larcen
Explorer
Since no commented on my last post, it makes me nervous. Are people just being polite? Am I screwing up my campaign with these make-shift percentages? I ask because at this point it's the accepted norm at our table and we will probably continue to use that method in the future. Am I gonna live to regret it in some way? Any suggested tweaks to spare me grief down the line? 
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Bendris Noulg
First Post
Well, I really have no comment. I tend to go with "gut feeling" over percentages, but that's just me.Larcen said:
As for "screwing up your campaign", there are a few considerations:
A. Does it keep your campaign cohesive?
B. Do the Players agree with it (i.e., are they having fun)?
C. Is it maintaining balance (per DMG page 10's definition concerning challenge and fairness)?
If the answers to these are all yes, than no matter how you do it (or anything else), you're doing it right.
schporto
First Post
Larcen - I actually like your method. Mine is similar, but not as written out. I decided to be more random. Figured the city they were in would have 10 magic armors, 10 magic weapons, 20 others (scrolls, wands, rings, staffs etc). Seeing as the party is 4th level nothing over minor, with a couple things outta their price range. Worked, except there's not a whole lot they want, so they'll now have to commission anything specific. Something like yours a reasonable % that they'll find simple magic items (+1 sword), tougher %s to find that +1 flaming defending katana. Most is gut feeling, but I may look at using your idea more. Then again I think I want to make it easier for them to get magic stuff.
-cpd
-cpd
Assuming a Big City...
If it's a +1 or +2 weapon, armor, or shield, I don't have a problem with it. If it's a magical item of equal or lesser value to the +2 equivalents, I don't generally have a problem with it.
If it's a "+3 keen chaotic icy burst great sword", then they can find an item that fulfills part of that requirement. But they will have to commission the rest. Otherwise, that is WAY too specific for me.
And I'm running a planar campaign where the players have access to Sigil.
Anything else seems too contrived to me. Sure, you can buy it. It'll just take a little while to get it ready.
If it's a +1 or +2 weapon, armor, or shield, I don't have a problem with it. If it's a magical item of equal or lesser value to the +2 equivalents, I don't generally have a problem with it.
If it's a "+3 keen chaotic icy burst great sword", then they can find an item that fulfills part of that requirement. But they will have to commission the rest. Otherwise, that is WAY too specific for me.
And I'm running a planar campaign where the players have access to Sigil.
Anything else seems too contrived to me. Sure, you can buy it. It'll just take a little while to get it ready.
Tonguez
A suffusion of yellow
No Magic Shops and Grumpy Wizards who will only make you that enchanted item if they like you, the planets are properly aligned and they are having a good day.
Ever noticed the number of frogs around Waterdeep? We'll thats what happens to pushy adventurers who keep asking the wrong person at the wrong time
Ever noticed the number of frogs around Waterdeep? We'll thats what happens to pushy adventurers who keep asking the wrong person at the wrong time
First of all, I think it's pretty much implied that most custom items are commissioned to be built. I do NOT, however, force players to play that out. It's a waste of time and detracts from the overall game, which is the adventuring. If it's more than a certain amount, I assume it's commissioned, and I assume they find someone to do the work. They pay the full price, plain and simple, and that's it. Just like buying an item, except I tack days on the calendar.
In D&D3, the system breaks down real quick if you do not allow magic items to be purchased UNLESS you, as the DM, place specific treasures that are usable by the PCs in adventures so that they have the resources needed to face monsters. If you don't do that, you either need to bump all CRs up by a bit or not throw ANY of the truly tough monsters at the party, because they won't be able to handle it.
D&D3 ASSUMES that the party can buy an item they need as long as they have the money. Unlike earlier editions of the game, magical items are the means, not the ends. You don't adventure to find a Longsword +4, you buy it to use IN an adventure.
I go by the specific guidelines in the DMG. If the town has a big enough GP limit, I say "yes, you can buy that, here's your receipt". D&D3 is intended as a high-magic world, which is why they give guidelines for IF you change that. The game works "best", hwoever, if it's played the way the normal rules specify for magic items. Sure, it's not perfect, but it works with the system it was designed for.
In D&D3, the system breaks down real quick if you do not allow magic items to be purchased UNLESS you, as the DM, place specific treasures that are usable by the PCs in adventures so that they have the resources needed to face monsters. If you don't do that, you either need to bump all CRs up by a bit or not throw ANY of the truly tough monsters at the party, because they won't be able to handle it.
D&D3 ASSUMES that the party can buy an item they need as long as they have the money. Unlike earlier editions of the game, magical items are the means, not the ends. You don't adventure to find a Longsword +4, you buy it to use IN an adventure.
I go by the specific guidelines in the DMG. If the town has a big enough GP limit, I say "yes, you can buy that, here's your receipt". D&D3 is intended as a high-magic world, which is why they give guidelines for IF you change that. The game works "best", hwoever, if it's played the way the normal rules specify for magic items. Sure, it's not perfect, but it works with the system it was designed for.
Saeviomagy
Adventurer
To all the people who say "no, you can't buy magic items, ever" - do you allow your characters to sell them? Or are all your characters lugging around magic items that they just can't get rid of? Is the game played from the point of view that your players are the only adventurers in the world, and therefore there is no market for items?
These aren't criticisms - I'm genuinely interested in hearing how you deal with this sort of thing while maintaining a sense of verisimilitude.
These aren't criticisms - I'm genuinely interested in hearing how you deal with this sort of thing while maintaining a sense of verisimilitude.
