D&D 5E On fairies and flying

[overgeeked]

Most PC wizards start with it in their spellbook and use 10 gp of their starting wealth to start with it. Not allowing that is kind of a %$#@ move for a DM - it is an iconic part of the toolset of a wizard.

I literally never said I would take it away. I merely mentioned it had a cost. Something free, permanent flight at 1st level doesn't have. Calm down.

And in a hexploration game, you often have days to spend slots without any other specific use for them, right?

Yeah, regularly.

You're going to throw 9 CR 1 monsters at a 1st or 2nd level party? Errrr... That is quite a bit into deadly. I mean, I would do it, but it would be something where I gave them clues that the hippogriffs were too tough to fight in that situation....

Literally did not say that. You're really making a lot of assumptions.

You might find some adverse to speaking, but if everyone is? That is odd behavior.

Again, never said that. You keep on assuming and putting words in my mouth.

You've convinced it is. I have rampant experience that shows it is not...

Again with the assumptions. As I've said before I've run with PCs who had flight. It sucked all the fun out of the game.

I sense that this conversation will go nowhere.

Clearly.

 

[Krachek]

We can find here a good adventure hook, all the flying fairies have been exterminated, obviously by some evil king who find them a too powerful threat.
You can give a player the option to play a fairie whit severed wings that survived and is in search of retribution.

 

[J.Quondam]

We can find here a good adventure hook, all the flying fairies have been exterminated, obviously by some evil king who find them a too powerful threat.
You can give a player the option to play a fairie whit severed wings that survived and is in search of retribution.

You know, that just reminded me... The opening scene of Carnival Row shows military tactics to control low-level flying fairies:

Spoiler

As I recall, there was at least one other battle depicted in the series, though that one seemed pretty iffy, even to someone like me who's completely lacking any tactical sense whatsoever.

 

[overgeeked]

You know, that just reminded me... The opening scene of Carnival Row shows military tactics to control low-level flying fairies:

Spoiler

As I recall, there was at least one other battle depicted in the series, though that one seemed pretty iffy, even to someone like me who's completely lacking any tactical sense whatsoever.

The presence of the anti-flying netting in the trees suggests it's quite intentional that the soldiers have driven the fairies into this area. It looks more like a hunt or extermination than anything about war. Why they'd ever be on the ground in the first place is beyond me.

In the real world, aviation was a massive game changer in war. In a fantasy setting easy access to flying would be similar. One fairy or aarakocra with a bag of holding on each hip would be the equivalent to a stealth bomber...or a mass driver.

A 2nd-level artificer can infuse two items and can replicate a bag of holding. "This bag has an interior space considerably larger than its outside dimensions, roughly 2 feet in diameter at the mouth and 4 feet deep. The bag can hold up to 500 pounds, not exceeding a volume of 64 cubic feet. The bag weighs 15 pounds, regardless of its contents."

So just craft a stone cannonball less than 2 feet in diameter (so it can fit into the bag) that weighs slightly less than 500 pounds (so it can fit into the bag). A round ball of sandstone that's 1.87ft diameter weighs 496.62 pounds. For granite it would be a ball 1.77 feet in diameter weighing 498.5 pounds. How long would it take that ball to reach terminal velocity? Any takers on how much more damage it would do than a cannon, catapult, or trebuchet? It's effectively a mass driver.

Altitude would be great. Up to around 5-6000 feet you're still good to breathe. If not, there's spells and magic items for that. Plenty of room for that terminal velocity thing, right? Nothing could reach you from the ground, so any fortification worth protecting would have to have flying protection. But they're not going to be able to patrol the entire 5-6000 feet above a castle or city. Say a mile across up to 5-6000 feet...that's about 131,373,864,951 cubic feet to cover. I'm sure one or two dudes on griffons with crossbows would manage fine.

Fly over the target and dump out the bag. Level a castle. Find another target and dump out the second bag. So a second level flying character with a few weeks to spare can level a castle. Hell, it's practically a downtime activity.

But nope. Flying is nothing.

(Yes, I know how absurd this is. That's the point. I have had players who would do this. It's one reason why I can't play Spelljammer. They'd just use it to take over the world. But hey, now they don't need the Spelljammer. Just one fairy and a bag of holding.)

 

[cbwjm]

I'm generally fine with flying. I have a player playing a pixie (my homebrew) in a game right now, he can even turn invisible to scout around. Best thing is, he doesn't set off any traps and he is unlikely to find them so the other players still fall into them. Considering that most of the party can't fly, I find it doesn't really cause much in the way of issues.

 

[BookTenTiger]

The presence of the anti-flying netting in the trees suggests it's quite intentional that the soldiers have driven the fairies into this area. It looks more like a hunt or extermination than anything about war. Why they'd ever be on the ground in the first place is beyond me.

In the real world, aviation was a massive game changer in war. In a fantasy setting easy access to flying would be similar. One fairy or aarakocra with a bag of holding on each hip would be the equivalent to a stealth bomber...or a mass driver.

A 2nd-level artificer can infuse two items and can replicate a bag of holding. "This bag has an interior space considerably larger than its outside dimensions, roughly 2 feet in diameter at the mouth and 4 feet deep. The bag can hold up to 500 pounds, not exceeding a volume of 64 cubic feet. The bag weighs 15 pounds, regardless of its contents."

So just craft a stone cannonball less than 2 feet in diameter (so it can fit into the bag) that weighs slightly less than 500 pounds (so it can fit into the bag). A round ball of sandstone that's 1.87ft diameter weighs 496.62 pounds. For granite it would be a ball 1.77 feet in diameter weighing 498.5 pounds. How long would it take that ball to reach terminal velocity? Any takers on how much more damage it would do than a cannon, catapult, or trebuchet? It's effectively a mass driver.

Altitude would be great. Up to around 5-6000 feet you're still good to breathe. If not, there's spells and magic items for that. Plenty of room for that terminal velocity thing, right? Nothing could reach you from the ground, so any fortification worth protecting would have to have flying protection. But they're not going to be able to patrol the entire 5-6000 feet above a castle or city. Say a mile across up to 5-6000 feet...that's about 131,373,864,951 cubic feet to cover. I'm sure one or two dudes on griffons with crossbows would manage fine.

Fly over the target and dump out the bag. Level a castle. Find another target and dump out the second bag. So a second level flying character with a few weeks to spare can level a castle. Hell, it's practically a downtime activity.

But nope. Flying is nothing.

(Yes, I know how absurd this is. That's the point. I have had players who would do this. It's one reason why I can't play Spelljammer. They'd just use it to take over the world. But hey, now they don't need the Spelljammer. Just one fairy and a bag of holding.)

I feel like these are not actual critiques of flying characters and more complaints about your players?

 

[overgeeked]

I feel like these are not actual critiques of flying characters and more complaints about your players?

In my experience, if it's possible for a player to do it, they will. No matter how nicely you ask. So the only way to prevent them from abusing flying is to not have flying. Like asking players to not optimize their characters. As long as optimized choices exist, players will optimize. The only way to prevent it is to not use optional rules like multiclassing and/or feats. Not all players and not all the time, of course. But it's inevitable.

 

[J.Quondam]

The presence of the anti-flying netting in the trees suggests it's quite intentional that the soldiers have driven the fairies into this area. It looks more like a hunt or extermination than anything about war. Why they'd ever be on the ground in the first place is beyond me.

Yes, you're spot on. For context (as I recall) those fairies are mainly civilian refugees led by a handful of resistance fighters, fleeing an occupying army hell bent on eradicating them. As I mentioned, there's another battle later in the series (though earlier in the chronology) of fairies against airships that also ends pretty disastrously. I couldn't find a clip of it, though.

I only posted a video of flying fairies in combat since it seemed relevant in a thread on the topic of flying fairies in combat.

 

[MGibster]

So just craft a stone cannonball less than 2 feet in diameter (so it can fit into the bag) that weighs slightly less than 500 pounds (so it can fit into the bag). A round ball of sandstone that's 1.87ft diameter weighs 496.62 pounds. For granite it would be a ball 1.77 feet in diameter weighing 498.5 pounds. How long would it take that ball to reach terminal velocity? Any takers on how much more damage it would do than a cannon, catapult, or trebuchet? It's effectively a mass driver.

Unless I'm getting my editions mixed up, that dropped stone will do a maximum of 20d6 damage. On the bright side, you could carry two 200 pound stones in that bag plus a 99 pound stone. I think a catapult does something like 3d10 damage.

 

[DrunkonDuty]

Towards the end of the Reign of Winter AP there's a bit where the heroes have to traverse a jungle. I changed it up to turn into a guerilla jungle war with a nasty evil spirit hit-and-running them. I hoped it would freak them out. Know what I forgot? They could all fly. Hell, the wizard's feet hadn't touched the ground since he got Overland Flight; by this level he'd enchanted a flying comfy chair to sit in. So they skipped the whole thing.

Would I ban flight? Hell no. I, stupidly, took the time to build the wrong encounter. And that's on me. If I wasn't a numpty I would have built a cool aerial encounter of some sort. Sky islands, dragons, faeries, yada yada, yada.

Flight doesn't limit adventure design options. Flight, like every other potential PC power, informs how an adventure will be played out. As the GM I need to take into account what the PCs can do. If I don't do this, if I am a numpty, well, re-read that first paragraph.