On "Illusionism" (+)

S'mon

Legend
Story Time: So new player joins the group, I know they are trouble but they are related to another player or "everyone's best friend". So no chance to get rid of them.

Example 1- the group comes to a small way inn and meets the npc owner with a problem. Joe wastes no time murderhbobing the NPC and looting the inn. The group just shrugs. They stay the night at the inn...and find NPC owner alive and well the next morning. Joe is supper mad. He throws a tantrum, has his character kill the NPC...again. The rest of the group heads off to do the 'problem' anyway. Joe can't do much disruptive in the wild, but he does get three of his characters killed. The group takes care of the problem and heads back to the inn. Of course, NPC owner is alive and well...again. Joe gets really mad has his character kill the NPC, again. Then the same NPC comes in another door. Joe gets even madder, kills the NPC again. It only took five times for Joe to leave the game screaming he would never play with me again.

Example 2- Spoony- The game starts off with dinner at the kings castle...and problem player Mike. All the character sit down for a meal and about a minute into the game Mike tries to steal the kings golden soup spoon. Except the spoon animates and gets away from the character. For the next couple minutes Mikes character runs all through the dinning hall, kitchens, and other nearby rooms trying to catch the spoon. The spoon knocks tapestries down on him, throws knives, knocks over furniture and more endless slapstick. All the while the king pulls out his silver spoon ("I was born with this one") and calmly talks to the other players. I keep the side with the good players nice and clam, as they talk to the king. At first the good players ignore Mikes Mess, even with the king slyly making comments every so often "I thought I hear something break in the kitchen". When Mikes mess moves back into the dining hall and the spoon starts dropping hanging shields on poor Mikes character.....Marcy looses it a bit. She turns to Mike, near screaming, "what are you doing your destroying the castle to get a spoon?". Mike just gets even more crazed. This goes on for a couple more minutes...until the spoon knocks out Mikes character with a halberd. The good players then accept the kings quest, and head off, dragging Mikes unconscious character with them. Once in the Wild, Mike can't do much to disrupt or ruin the game...other then getting his character killed over and over again. Though...best of all....the SPOON kept poping up everywhere to mess with Mikes character when they did try to disrupt something...making noise when he was sneaking around, cutting his rope when he was climbing, and so forth.

These remind me of the stuff those "RPG Horror Story" Youtubers like CritCrab and DnDoge read off Reddit.
 

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Lanefan

Victoria Rules
Example 1- the group comes to a small way inn and meets the npc owner with a problem. Joe wastes no time murderhbobing the NPC and looting the inn. The group just shrugs. They stay the night at the inn...and find NPC owner alive and well the next morning. Joe is supper mad. He throws a tantrum, has his character kill the NPC...again. The rest of the group heads off to do the 'problem' anyway. Joe can't do much disruptive in the wild, but he does get three of his characters killed. The group takes care of the problem and heads back to the inn. Of course, NPC owner is alive and well...again. Joe gets really mad has his character kill the NPC, again. Then the same NPC comes in another door. Joe gets even madder, kills the NPC again. It only took five times for Joe to leave the game screaming he would never play with me again.
Were I another player in this game I'd also be looking very sideways at the DM by this point, and start wondering whether there's a lot more to this supposedly-common innkeep than meets the eye. Is he a deity in disguise? Does he have some ability or device which keeps popping him back up from the dead? Has he been cloned 100 times, with the remaining 95 clones waiting in stasis out back in the woodshed for their turn behind the bar? What gives, here? What happens if someone else kills him?

In any case, were I a player we wouldn't be leaving that inn until we got some in-fiction answers. And if the out-of-fiction answer was simply because the DM was showing anti-favouritism against a player, out the door I'd go.
Example 2- Spoony- The game starts off with dinner at the kings castle...and problem player Mike. All the character sit down for a meal and about a minute into the game Mike tries to steal the kings golden soup spoon. Except the spoon animates and gets away from the character. For the next couple minutes Mikes character runs all through the dinning hall, kitchens, and other nearby rooms trying to catch the spoon. The spoon knocks tapestries down on him, throws knives, knocks over furniture and more endless slapstick. All the while the king pulls out his silver spoon ("I was born with this one") and calmly talks to the other players. I keep the side with the good players nice and clam, as they talk to the king. At first the good players ignore Mikes Mess, even with the king slyly making comments every so often "I thought I hear something break in the kitchen". When Mikes mess moves back into the dining hall and the spoon starts dropping hanging shields on poor Mikes character.....Marcy looses it a bit. She turns to Mike, near screaming, "what are you doing your destroying the castle to get a spoon?". Mike just gets even more crazed. This goes on for a couple more minutes...until the spoon knocks out Mikes character with a halberd. The good players then accept the kings quest, and head off, dragging Mikes unconscious character with them. Once in the Wild, Mike can't do much to disrupt or ruin the game...other then getting his character killed over and over again. Though...best of all....the SPOON kept poping up everywhere to mess with Mikes character when they did try to disrupt something...making noise when he was sneaking around, cutting his rope when he was climbing, and so forth.
I have to say that this one, while amusing, is pretty much flat-out bad form on the DM's part.
 

In any case, were I a player we wouldn't be leaving that inn until we got some in-fiction answers. And if the out-of-fiction answer was simply because the DM was showing anti-favouritism against a player, out the door I'd go.
I only run a beyond high magic and beyond high fantasy so nearly everything in the game is at a power level beyond the imagination of most people. So, it's beyond easy for me to add anything.
I have to say that this one, while amusing, is pretty much flat-out bad form on the DM's part.
Well, just keep in mind we are not talking about a normal player: we are talking about a player that does nothing but ruin and disrupt RPGs. This players idea of personal fun is to ruin the fun for others.
 

S'mon

Legend
I only run a beyond high magic and beyond high fantasy so nearly everything in the game is at a power level beyond the imagination of most people. So, it's beyond easy for me to add anything.

Well, just keep in mind we are not talking about a normal player: we are talking about a player that does nothing but ruin and disrupt RPGs. This players idea of personal fun is to ruin the fun for others.

I guess my feeling is: bad player + bad GM. I can see these appearing on Youtube as D&D Horror Stories slanted either way. I wouldn't want you to GM me, but I wouldn't want to be a player with these guys, either.
 

Starfox

Adventurer
I am presently playing the Grandmother's Fire scenario from Kobpld Press' Old Margrave. The scenario begins with what appears to be a random encounter. We are not yet at that point - the player's have researched an area of interest, and are having a chance encounter along the way. When they get to the general area, they will have this encounter and the scenario proper starts.

This is pure illusionism. For me to keep track of the actions of every faction and patrol in the area would simply be impossible. So coincidentally this encounter will happen, setting the action in progress. This level of illusionism facilitates story, which is the goal of my game.

Clearly there are different levels of illusionism, and different preferences. Illusionism is not a derogatory term, but a matter of preferences.
 

I am presently playing the Grandmother's Fire scenario from Kobpld Press' Old Margrave. The scenario begins with what appears to be a random encounter. We are not yet at that point - the player's have researched an area of interest, and are having a chance encounter along the way. When they get to the general area, they will have this encounter and the scenario proper starts.

This is pure illusionism. For me to keep track of the actions of every faction and patrol in the area would simply be impossible. So coincidentally this encounter will happen, setting the action in progress. This level of illusionism facilitates story, which is the goal of my game.

Clearly there are different levels of illusionism, and different preferences. Illusionism is not a derogatory term, but a matter of preferences.
Illusionism, I think, requires an intent to deceive. It also requires voiding of player actions. A prepared encounter is not intending to deceive the players — especially if you are playing from a published scenario, nor is it negating their actions, since they are not taking actions to select any particular encounter.
 

aramis erak

Legend
Illusionism, I think, requires an intent to deceive. It also requires voiding of player actions. A prepared encounter is not intending to deceive the players — especially if you are playing from a published scenario, nor is it negating their actions, since they are not taking actions to select any particular encounter.
QFT.
Tho' I'll quibble that, if the adventure designer did so intentionally, it's still illusionism.
 

S'mon

Legend
Illusionism, I think, requires an intent to deceive. It also requires voiding of player actions. A prepared encounter is not intending to deceive the players — especially if you are playing from a published scenario, nor is it negating their actions, since they are not taking actions to select any particular encounter.
Absolutely right. A set encounter only becomes Illusionism when it triggers no matter what the PCs do.
 

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