Ooh, Dark Sun power level talk. XD
Well, since we're using Krustiverse scales, I think it would be interesting to look at their 4E stats to see where the Sorcerer-monarchs stand:
(levels are converted to standard)
42 - Borys (Dragon of Tyr)
39 - Dregoth
37 - Lalali-Puy
33 - Nibenay
32 - Abalach-Re
29 - Andropinis
26 - Tektuktitlay
By comparison, Borys is the same level as 4E Orcus, while Torog, the lowest-level statted deity, is 34 solo (or 43). MM1 abominations ranged from standardized levels 23 to 39.
Awesome comparison Beej! I hadn't even thought of using the various 4E stats for make a stable baseline regarding the power of Sorcerer-Kings vs. deities.
I'm a little curious, does the 4E
Underdark book (which is the source of the stats for Torog, I believe) say what level of god Torog is? I mean, is he a demigod, lesser god, or greater god? The other 4E god stats that I'm aware of (namely Lolth and Tiamat) are level 35 solos, which means they're not that much stronger than Torog, so I'd presume they'd all be of the same divine strata.
For a quick conversion of the Sorcerer-King's power levels for my 3.X/Pathfinder brethren, this translates into the following Challenge Ratings (using U_K's
3rd to 4th Edition Conversions table, which I believe is what Beej used also), along with parenthetical notes of my loose guestimations - based on the guidelines in
Ascension and the examples in
Gods and Monsters - of what their equivalent divine level would be:
70 (avg. of 65-74) - Borys (equiv. lesser deity)
50 (avg. of 49-50) - Dregoth (equiv. demi-deity)
50 (avg. of 49-50) - Kalid-Ma (equiv. demi-deity)
44 (avg. of 43-45) - Lalali-Puy (equiv. demi-deity)
42 (avg. of 41-42) - Hamanu (equiv. demi-deity)
34 (avg. of 33-34) - Nibenay (equiv. quasi-deity)
31 (avg. of 30-32) - Abalach-Re (equiv. quasi-deity)
25 - Andropinis (equiv. hero-deity)
25 - Daskinor (equiv. hero-deity)
21 - Tectuktitlay (equiv. hero-deity)
Remember that in U_K's (v.3.5) system, CR is 2/3 of ECL.
With 4E as baseline, at least, I'm inclined to agree that the sorcerer-monarchs are abomination-level in terms of power, while the Dragon of Tyr is in a league close to the demon lords (intermediate deity?). Perhaps Dregoth wants to attain godhood because at level 39, the dragon is the only thing left in Athas that can "give him enough xp to level-up." The alternative power boost of godhood is safer.
I can't speak for how 4E ranks its demon lords, arch-devils, et al in regards to actual deities, but the
IH Bestiary puts the singular rulers of Hell and the Abyss (though that rulership is more theoretical for the latter plane) as being Intermediate deities (though didn't U_K say once that he thought he should have changed that to greater deities?), the strongest demon princes and arch-devils as lesser deities, etc.
So in that regard, the 3.X/Pathfinder version of the Dragon is also equivalent in power to 3.X/Pathfinder Orcus (at least as the
IH Bestiary would have placed him). Isn't it great when everything falls into place so neatly?
Makes me wonder how high Rajaat is by comparison.
No clue there. He was taken down by all fifteen champions (though two later turned traitor and tried to free him), and if I recall correctly they hadn't started their dragon transformations yet (or had just started), so my total shot in the dark is that Rajaat was the equivalent of an intermediate deity at the very least...and more likely the equivalent of a greater deity.
PS. I've read from the 4E designers somewhere that the sorcerer-monarchs designations as either elite or solo was mostly a matter of their "fighting style." Nibenay's more likely to fight alongside high consorts compared to Lalali-Puy, so Nibs is elite while Lala is a solo. However, they were meant to be close to each other in terms of power level. If that is taken into account, then it might be proper to consider the elite SKs as solo, even if they aren't statted as such.
Personally I like the numbers already. In my game I explain Tek's weakness being brought about by maintaining a ritual that's so far taking him a king's age to cast. (He needs blood sacrifices and still doesn't have enough after all this time) But for those who think poor Tektuktitlay is truly under-appreciated, they might be more properly statted as:
38 - Nibenay
34 - Andropinis
31 - Tektuktitlay (he's still rock-bottom...
)
Here's the 3.X/Pathfinder CR's using these alternate numbers:
70 (avg. of 65-74) - Borys (equiv. lesser deity)
50 (avg. of 49-50) - Dregoth (equiv. demi-deity)
50 (avg. of 49-50) - Kalid-Ma (equiv. demi-deity)
47 (avg. of 46-48) - Nibenay (equiv. demi-deity)
44 (avg. of 43-45) - Lalali-Puy (equiv. demi-deity)
42 (avg. of 41-42) - Hamanu (equiv. demi-deity)
36 (avg. of 35-37) - Andropinis (equiv. quasi-deity)
31 (avg. of 30-32) - Abalach-Re (equiv. quasi-deity)
28 (avg. of 27-29) - Tectuktitlay (equiv. quasi-deity)
25 - Daskinor (equiv. hero-deity)
Personally, I like these numbers a bit better, since they make the Sorcerer-Kings more badass overall.
Either way, this was fun; kudos again to you, Beej!
EDIT: I've also added in Daskinor and Kalid-Ma to the above lists. Note that this reflects Kalid-Ma as a full-strength dragon (also altered/augmented with some sort of shadow-essence) as per the May, 2011
Dragon article
Eye on Dark Sun - Kalidnay.