[On topic - NO FLAMES!] God & Satan

[Andrew D. Gable]

I'm working on a Crusades-era setting, and of course Christianity and diabolism come into play, so I'm trying to figure out what are Christian domains, and what are Satanic domains.

So I'll pose the question, how do you think the power levels of God and Satan measure up to each other? I generally view granted domains as a measure of a deity's power (Gaea grants more domains than Aesculapius, for example).

My personal take is that Satan is *nearly* as powerful as God (he is an archangel - more specifically, a seraphim IIRC) - he certainly seems to offer up a good fight, in Revelation - although just slightly weaker. In DnD terms, maybe an intermediate god vs. a greater god.

Any flames, heated theological "discussions", Evolution vs. Creation debates, or anything like that are not welcomed. They show up and I'll ask the mods to close this thread. Nuff said.

 

[Cedric]

Good, Protection, War, Healing - God

Evil, Death, Trickery, War - Satan

Keep it simple.

Cedric

 

[barsoomcore]

It's pretty hard to not get theological on this, but I'll try and steer clear of any truly ugly issues...

Thing is, it has a lot to do with how you perceive the relationship between God and Satan. Are they truly rivals -- that is, would God destroy Satan if he could? That's serious blasphemy according to most Christian traditions because it implies that things can happen that are not God's will -- indeed that God's will can be thwarted.

Is Satan deluding himself into thinking he's a rival to God whereas God is simply allowing Satan to run amok so He can find out who the bad people are?

Or are Satan and God allies who work together to keep mortals from figuring out what's actually going on?

Or is Satan some older being who predates the Abrahamic Jehovah and has been cast in the role of evildoer by energetic Christians?

Obviously, any of these scenarios imply very different notions of who God and Satan are and what their appropriate domains would be.

 

[Henry]

One way to look at it is the "Star Wars" way - a path to God doesn't offer great power, but it is the stronger path, whereas Satan offers "quicker, more seductive" power.

With this in mind, you could offer domains focused squarely on strength and healing, and protection, and light, while you could offer more "strike 'em dead" power domains for Satan.

Alternately, offer clerical powers sans domains for clerics of god, and clerics of satan effectively become sorcerers.

IN FACT, When Cyberzombie's book, Elements of Magic, comes out, it sounds tailor-made for the kind of separation you are looking for.

 

[Knightcrawler]

Hmmm lets see. God created the angels so yeas he will be more powerful. Greater for God and Intermediate for Satan.

As to domains I'd go for more for each since there are only two.

God: Creation, Good, Healing, Law, Protection

Satan: Chaos, Destriction, Evil, Fire, Trickery

IMHO

 

[Wormwood]

I'm assuming that you're limiting Arcane magic to Diabolists and Witches.

 

[Tiefling]

Just curious, can Jewish clerics get spells? What about Islamic "clerics" (granted there aren't actually any priests, so I guess this would just be really zealous worshippers)?

 

[Avatar]

well in a Christian world, God is definately more powerful than Satan, because Satan is merely a fallen angel, whom God created. Although it's interesting to note that Lucifer got a thrd of the heavenly host to rise with him, and still God didn't just erase them from existence. So perhaps they are more evenly matched than is immediately apparent.

For an interesting take on the relation between God and Satan, as well as the fall, I highly recommend Steven Brust's "To Reign in Hell."


Alan

 

[Furn_Darkside]

For an interesting take on the relation between God and Satan, as well as the fall, I highly recommend Steven Brust's "To Reign in Hell."

Piers Anthony's Incarnations of Immortality also sets up an interesting relationship between the heaven and hell.

FD

 

[The Sigil]

Will try very hard to stay on topic here.

Classic tradition paints Satan as being a fallen Archangel.

IIRC, it (tradition, and also Revelation) also paints Satan as warring and putting up a heck of a fight against Michael, a fellow arch-angel (not God himself).

Since "celestials" are the D&D equivalent to angels, and Solars are the pre-eminent example of celestials, I therefore would rate Michael as a fully-advanced Solar (i.e., advanced to maximum HD).

I would rate Satan as a "fully-advanced" fallen Solar minus one HD (i.e., maximum HD minus 1).

God, being a deity (not merely a powerful extra-planar creature) is able to grant divine spells. Classically that would probably include the domains of Light, Healing, Knowledge, Good, and Law.

Satan, NOT being a full-fledged deity, but instead a very powerful extra-planar creature, could not grant spells. However, Satan's
"path to power" might be knowledge and extensive training - i.e., wizardly arcane magic where the power is learned, and not inborn.

Which provokes an interesting world... one wherein all divine magic comes from a single source (God) and all arcane magic comes from Satan (on the assumption that if God does not grant it, it must come from the other source).

Kind of interesting spin, I suppose... how would CE clerics gain spells (perhaps God is testing the faith of the masses by showing them the fallacy of man in order to convince them to trust in God and not in flesh) and how would LG wizards learn (perhaps Satan is trying to corrupt them)?

My 2 coppers.

--The Sigil