Once More the metamagic monkey.

[Shard O'Glase]

Other than endurance, Cat's Grace, Bull Strength, Fox's Cunning, Flaming Sphere, or Melf's acid arrow.

Oh come on all those spells suck to maximize. Heck for most spells it sucks to maximize. 3 spell levels is really harsh in damaging spells since the dc then drops signfigantly (compared to other spells of the slot it will take up) so the average damage increase isn't that great. Empower almost universally is a better way to go, and on things with a small variable like bulls str it is always the way to go.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Hmm. A question regarding this: I knew it was possible to take higher level spell slots as neccessary -
but what happens to the DC of the spell? It is still based on the spell level, or it is on the slot level?

Oh, damn, I just see the answer - Heighten Spell ...

 

[Numion]

If you have to roll 1d4+1, it's better to empower than maximize.

Expected value for empowered 1d4+1 = 3.5*1.5 = 5.25

Expected value for maximized 1d4+1 = 5

Plus it's higher level. It would've been wiser to double-empower the Magic missile, and put that into the 5th level slot.
E[DAMAGE] = 5*2*E[1d4+1] = 10*3.5 = 35. Still not good for a fifth level spell, though. (I assumed 5 missiles in the calculations)

 

[Pielorinho]

If you have to roll 1d4+1, it's better to empower than maximize.

Expected value for empowered 1d4+1 = 3.5*1.5 = 5.25

Expected value for maximized 1d4+1 = 5

This is something I've wondered about. Empowering, IIRC, multiplies all "variable, numeric" aspects of a spell by 1.5.

On a magic missile, is the calculation
(1d4+1) * 1.5
or
(1d4 * 1.5) +1?

It seems to me that only the 1d4, not the +1, is a "variable, numeric" aspect of the spell. But whenever I see folks calculating an empowered MM, they use the first calculation.

Am I missing something?
Daniel

 

[Andor of the Blade]

Pielorinho

IIRC, the PHB under the Empower Spell feat, specifically lists Magic Missile as an example and uses (D4+1) *1.5.

 

[Pielorinho]

Pielorinho

IIRC, the PHB under the Empower Spell feat, specifically lists Magic Missile as an example and uses (D4+1) *1.5.

Sounds like that's exactly what I was missing. Thanks!
Daniel

 

[Nail]

.....It would've been wiser to double-empower the Magic missile, and put that into the 5th level slot.
E[DAMAGE] = 5*2*E[1d4+1] = 10*3.5 = 35. Still not good for a fifth level spell, though. (I assumed 5 missiles in the calculations)

...Errrr...alright....so I'm not a spell caster....but: You can double Empower spells? Ye can do it more than once? Twice, even? Eeek. Don't tell my DM.....

Could someone point out where, exactly, does it say that in the PH?

-Nail

 

[hong]

...Errrr...alright....so I'm not a spell caster....but: You can double Empower spells? Ye can do it more than once? Twice, even? Eeek. Don't tell my DM.....

Could someone point out where, exactly, does it say that in the PH?

-Nail

It doesn't exactly say you _can_ do it, but you can put multiple metamagic feats on the one spell, and there's no prohibition against using the same feat multiple times.

 

[shilsen]

...Errrr...alright....so I'm not a spell caster....but: You can double Empower spells? Ye can do it more than once? Twice, even? Eeek. Don't tell my DM.....

Could someone point out where, exactly, does it say that in the PH?

-Nail

It's not in the PH. The DndFaQ explicitly says that you can use the same metamagic feat more than once on a spell (first question in the Feats section).