D&D (2024) One D&D Expert Classes Playtest Document Is Live

The One D&D Expert Class playest document is now available to download. You can access it by signing into your D&D Beyond account at the link below. It contains three classes -- bard, rogue, and ranger, along with three associated subclasses (College of Lore, Thief, and Hunter), plus a number of feats.

Unearthed Arcana Playtest

Unearthed Arcana Playtest Materials Get Unearthed Arcana playtest content, try it out in your game, and provide feedback! Check back regularly for ...

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[Bill Zebub]

A little patronizing, but thanks anyway.

Sorry that wasn’t meant that way. What I meant was that it’s not an objective truth, but a valid subjective one.

 

[Remathilis]

Sure, but that's not an argument for more simplicity. You can always not use rules you don't need.

Except for every time you have a mechanic that references it.

Let's say I don't like short rests. I don't want to use them in my next campaign. Except I break every rule that references short rests like the classes that recharge on short rest like fighters and warlocks. 8 could change some of them to prof per long rest, but how do you fix song of rest or pact magic? What about hit dice? Just making one small change impacts dozens of other things.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Except for every time you have a mechanic that references it.

Let's say I don't like short rests. I don't want to use them in my next campaign. Except I break every rule that references short rests like the classes that recharge on short rest like fighters and warlocks. 8 could change some of them to prof per long rest, but how do you fix song of rest or pact magic? What about hit dice? Just making one small change impacts dozens of other things.

What would you do instead of short rests? How would you recharge abilities? These are important questions, and I can't answer you without them. Implementation matters.

 

[Hussar]

What would you do instead of short rests? How would you recharge abilities? These are important questions, and I can't answer you without them. Implementation matters.

You're missing the point.

The point is, you claimed that removing rules is easier than adding. @Remathilis is giving an example of removing a rule and you're demonstrating the point by asking a shopping list of questions that need to be asked just to remove one rule. So, no, it is not easier to remove rules. Particularly in a ruleset like 5e where you have a very tight system with most rules being interconnected. Complexity always increases exponentially, so, any change will also ripple though exponentially.

 

[Micah Sweet]

You're missing the point.

The point is, you claimed that removing rules is easier than adding. @Remathilis is giving an example of removing a rule and you're demonstrating the point by asking a shopping list of questions that need to be asked just to remove one rule. So, no, it is not easier to remove rules. Particularly in a ruleset like 5e where you have a very tight system with most rules being interconnected. Complexity always increases exponentially, so, any change will also ripple though exponentially.

Ok. I'd rather remove something I don't want than add something I do. It might not be easier, but it is my preference.

 

[JEB]

If you think rebalancing a game after removing rules is hard, try inventing new additional rules from scratch. I'd say they're both pretty challenging if you care about balance, and only not challenging when you don't.

 

[Hussar]

If you think rebalancing a game after removing rules is hard, try inventing new additional rules from scratch. I'd say they're both pretty challenging if you care about balance, and only not challenging when you don't.

True, but, when adding new rules, you can go the lazy route and simply not connect the new mechanics to anything. So, your ship to ship combat rules aren't really tied to any existing rules, but, live off to the side and only apply when one ship attacks another ship. Just as an example. Additionally, since you are adding rules to existing rules, you can usually look at similar rules to get a pretty decent ballpark for balance. Might not be exact, but, it's not too far off either.

For example, if you were to build a psionic system onto D&D, you could certainly look at the existing spell system and extrapolate what effects should come into the game at what level from there. Again, not perfect, but, certainly doable.

And, I'd say a lot easier than trying to remove stuff once it's in there.

 

[MarkB]

True, but, when adding new rules, you can go the lazy route and simply not connect the new mechanics to anything. So, your ship to ship combat rules aren't really tied to any existing rules, but, live off to the side and only apply when one ship attacks another ship.

Right up until your players try to apply those rules when having their ship attack anything that isn't a ship. Rules systems can't stand completely discrete from each other because the world they're portraying is interconnected.

 

[Eric V]

True, but, when adding new rules, you can go the lazy route and simply not connect the new mechanics to anything. So, your ship to ship combat rules aren't really tied to any existing rules, but, live off to the side and only apply when one ship attacks another ship. Just as an example. Additionally, since you are adding rules to existing rules, you can usually look at similar rules to get a pretty decent ballpark for balance. Might not be exact, but, it's not too far off either.

For example, if you were to build a psionic system onto D&D, you could certainly look at the existing spell system and extrapolate what effects should come into the game at what level from there. Again, not perfect, but, certainly doable.

And, I'd say a lot easier than trying to remove stuff once it's in there.

Really? Easier than just saying "no psionics?"

Or no necromancy, no conjuration, etc.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Ok. I'd rather remove something I don't want than add something I do. It might not be easier, but it is my preference.

I would also rather remove something I don’t want than add something you do.