One D&D Grappling

NotAYakk

Legend
Prior to this change, grapple was junk except for grapple optimized PCs.

On grapple optimized PCs, it was crazy good. You bypassed saves, legendary resists, and got to add twice your proficiency to your attack and defence checks. The enemy eventually ended up prone, granting advantage to all of your allies attacks and disadvantage on all of its attacks. To break out, it had to burn its action.

On a high-CR enemy, you trade 2 attacks for it having a chance to break out as an action, and not a good chance, plus crippling the foe.

It was bad enough that 5e monsters had to start designing themselves to avoid the problem (having get out of grapple cards), and PC size had to be limited (as one defence for monsters was simply being too big to grapple). Once players could reach huge, they could grapple anything; so that had to be limited to T4 high-investment builds.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

I am not sure if it was said before, but after a few weeks of thinking about it, I really endorse the new grapple rules.

I think I said it in a different thread, but I really want to stress how interesting a strength based fighter with a versatile weapon without a shield is:

They can now use grapple or shove on an opportunity attack if the enemy tries to walk to the squishies. In the case of a grab, they can still attack with their now one handed weapon. In the case of a shove, they can attack with two hands.

This is an option that neither sword and board, a two handed weapon or a dex based fighter has. This change alone will increase the stickiness of strength based characters without the help of a feat or class feature.

And actually, when I started playing 5e, I actually thought you could use grab on an opportunity attack, but then noticed I was wrong.

I really hope this rule will stick.
 

darjr

I crit!
In play the rules were OK. Except one thing, at the end of a targets turn if a target breaks the grapple, it’s the end of their turn and now can’t move.
 

UngainlyTitan

Legend
Supporter
In play the rules were OK. Except one thing, at the end of a targets turn if a target breaks the grapple, it’s the end of their turn and now can’t move.
I would regard that as a feature not a bug. Grapples are sticky by design. The opportunity cost is that. unless you are a Tavern Brawler or a Monk you are doing less damage if you spend attacks on grapple or shove.
 

FitzTheRuke

Legend
In play the rules were OK. Except one thing, at the end of a targets turn if a target breaks the grapple, it’s the end of their turn and now can’t move.
That's simple - you can still use your action to escape a grapple. All you have to do is attack the guy who has you grappled with an unarmed strike, and if you succeed, shove them 5 feet away. Then just walk away.
 




Yaarel

Mind Mage
Grappling is something that should be simple.

A hit instead "holds on" (namely, grapples). Who is moving who depends on size. If a person is medium size and grabs a tiny creature, then the person moves normally. If the medium size person grabs a huge elephant, then the person is holding on tightly while "riding" the unwilling elephant. It is the elephant that is moving normally.
 

FitzTheRuke

Legend
Grappling is something that should be simple.

A hit instead "holds on" (namely, grapples). Who is moving who depends on size. If a person is medium size and grabs a tiny creature, then the person moves normally. If the medium size person grabs a huge elephant, then the person is holding on tightly while "riding" the unwilling elephant. It is the elephant that is moving normally.
I think that's taken care of with the size restrictions. (And riding an elephant doesn't require grappling it, rules-wise, though I'm sure a DM could choose to do it that way.)
 

Yaarel

Mind Mage
I think that's taken care of with the size restrictions. (And riding an elephant doesn't require grappling it, rules-wise, though I'm sure a DM could choose to do it that way.)
At first I wrote riding a gargantuan dragon, but edited it with the two sizes difference in mind.

In any case, if the elephant is unwilling, then riding it is hostile, and requires grappling.

The size restrictions dont really make sense. Because the size that is bigger is more likely to determine the movement.

When dealing with same size, one can try to "hold on" in a way that impedes the movement of the opponent, or in other words inflicts the Restrained condition. If the creature is restrained, then moving at Slow speed might make sense.

In any case, grappling is a normal part of combat. And it should happen more frequently, if realism is of interest. It is better to describe grappling by means of combat mechanics, instead of skill mechanics.
 

squibbles

Adventurer
I'd be willing to bet that the Grappler feat will interact in interesting ways with this condition, allowing for people to build around it.

So, as of today, we have a new Grappler feat:

GRAPPLER
4th-Level Feat
Prerequisite: Strength or Dexterity 13+
Repeatable: No
You’re an accomplished wrestler, granting you the following benefits:
  • Ability Score Increase. Increase your Strength or Dexterity score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
  • Attack Advantage. You have Advantage on Attack Rolls against a creature Grappled by you.
  • Fast Wrestler. You aren’t Slowed when you move a creature Grappled by you, provided the creature is your Size or smaller.
  • Punch and Grab. When you hit a creature with an Unarmed Strike as part of the Attack Action on your turn, you can deal damage to the target and also grapple it. You can use this benefit only once per turn.

What do we all think?

IMO:
  1. The advantage on attack rolls makes it more rewarding for martial-types to succeed on a grapple, though they miss out on one full damage attack to initiate the grapple, and need to have a free hand. This is probably a net loss of dpr but, due to the other penalties of the grappled condition, would be good under a relatively common set of circumstances. It also makes following up with and unarmed attack shove easier, so that's nice.
  2. The removal of the slow condition means that a grappler can drag his/her target 30 feet if the initial hit roll succeeds, which is probably good enough to chuck a baddie off a cliff or into battlefield control.
  3. Overall, these rules are more coherent, point to some obvious grapple builds, and more-or-less fit the fiction of a big strong wrestler dude able to grab, punch, and drag folks around.
  4. But, again, it seems as though grappling will be somewhat weaker than it is currently, due to the higher difficulty of maintaining a grapple, i.e. you can force the baddie into the battlefield control, but can't reliably hold it there.
We will, of course, need to see the changes to the warrior class group, spell list, etc, etc, to know for sure.
 

NotAYakk

Legend
That (grappler feat) also works really well with monks. Their unarmed strikes are good damage often.

So they punch twice; if either hits, they grab. Then their flurry has advantage. And they can drag the target their fast move speed away. Oh, and they have slow fall, so they can drag them off cliffs with some safety.

And I'm ok with that combo. It has a real kinetic fun to it.

Monks clearly need a climb speed.
 
Last edited:

UngainlyTitan

Legend
Supporter
That also works really well with monks. Their unarmed strikes are good damage often.

So they punch twice; if either hits, they grab. Then their flurry has advantage. And they can drag the target their fast move speed away. Oh, and they have slow fall, so they can drag them off cliffs with some safety.

And I'm ok with that combo. It has a real kinetic fun to it.

Monks clearly need a climb speed.
Wuxia
 

An Advertisement

Advertisement4

Top