One Level Scale to Rule Them All?

[The Souljourner]

The original magic missile? A second level spell now?

Could be. Fireball moved to 6th. Basically all the "just a little too good for this spell level" spells can get bumped up a notch.

I hope there are a ton of really cool tricks straight spellcasters can do. I always thought that they kind of got the shaft, because all their tricks are spells, and when you have to memorize spells, you can only ever memorize ones that will be useful in 99% of cases, so any edge case spells aren't ever used. So in theory, while a wizard can teleport and dimension door and dig... he doesn't get to do that stuff except in exceptional circumstances.

I'd like to see wizards who have endure elements on all the time, or can use prestidigitation and mage hand all the time. I want to see mages that can float above the ground as they walk, and do all kinds of cool minor magic tricks that have very limited combat value, but are really cool nonetheless.

-Nate

 

[Olaf the Stout]

I personally would like to see something like Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed/Evolved, where all spells had a lesser and a heightened version. Something along those lines would be great.

Olaf the Stout

 

[Gentlegamer]

Could be. Fireball moved to 6th. Basically all the "just a little too good for this spell level" spells can get bumped up a notch.

I hope there are a ton of really cool tricks straight spellcasters can do. I always thought that they kind of got the shaft, because all their tricks are spells, and when you have to memorize spells, you can only ever memorize ones that will be useful in 99% of cases, so any edge case spells aren't ever used. So in theory, while a wizard can teleport and dimension door and dig... he doesn't get to do that stuff except in exceptional circumstances.

I'd like to see wizards who have endure elements on all the time, or can use prestidigitation and mage hand all the time. I want to see mages that can float above the ground as they walk, and do all kinds of cool minor magic tricks that have very limited combat value, but are really cool nonetheless.

-Nate

I agree. Something like if a "fire" spell is memorized, such as Fireball, other fire-based effects can be used, like Control Fire, Ignite Fire, Conjure Minor Fire Spirit, Fire Resistance, Pyrotechnics, etc. You get access to a suite of fire-based abilities similar to that Gandalf exhibited in "The Lord of the Rings."

Teleport and Dimension Door could fall under some kind of "Apportation" spell/power that includes dimensional powers like Astral Projections, Ethereal Travel, Wraithform (part of the caster is in the Negative Material Plane), Rope Trick, creation of "pockets of holding" (extra-dimensional spaces like bags of holding), etc.

Essentially, there is a magical "power" that the wizard studies (possibly a talent tree) that allows use of "power stunts" within the theme and framework of the specific power, allowing for more versatility and possibly improvisation that is adjudicated by the DM.

 

[Szatany]

The original magic missile? A second level spell now?

Could be still 1st level spell, but only castable once per encounter or something like that.

 

[fuindordm]

As long as they are able to pull this off without using any tables, I'm fine with that approach. It would be just like psionics with several different augment options.

But if they use tables it doesn't just sound like Rolemaster, it IS Rolemaster. And it's an absolutely terrible system: Well, you've got thirty spells: 10 of them are fireball: minor, least, lesser, greater, swarm of fireballs, twin fireball, long-range fireball, fireball trap, true fireball, true swarm of fireballs *yuck*.

Sounds like Hackmaster too, but there it's rather fun.

I've always wanted to cast a Bouncing Betty Fireball. It's all in the presentation.

Ben

 

[Baby Samurai]

I'd love it if they had no particular level on the spells, but a minimum level you need to be in order to use them. And they scale. So FIREBALL could be a 1st level spell, 5th level spell, 15th level spell, or 25th level spell, all depending on your own caster level.

Yes, this is what I'm hoping for – no separate levels of spells, but all spells are cast at the level of the caster.

So you could choose any spell at 1st level, but it's effects would be different if you cast it as a 1st level magic-user (1st level spell) or a 19th level magic-user (19th level spell) etc.

 

[fuindordm]

Now here's the trick ... at level N, a certain number A of (N-x) level spells are at will; a number B of (N-y) spells are per encounter, and a number C of (N-z) spells are per day -- where x > y > z and A > B > C. I'd bet 0-level spells rapidly become "at will" abilities. The question is how many of each A/B/C, and what ratio of x/y/z to make the system balanced, keep things interesting, but not make wizards too overpowered. For example, you might start with A = Level + ability mod, B = 1/2 Level + ability mod, and C = 2 + ability mod with X = 4, y = 2, z=0 (and let's assume zero levels go to 5 + ability mod). With those number, a 5th level wizard with Int 16 (+3) would likely have:

- 8 "0-level" spells at will
- 8 "1-level" spells at will
- 5 "2- and 3-level" spells per encounter, and
- 5 "4- and 5-level" spells per day

As you rise in elvel, the number of "at will" abilities increases slightly, but you can increase them in power; the net number of per encounter and per day abilities increases less quickly but they can also increase in power.

I'm betting that something like this will be in the mix, but it will also depend heavily on the spell. For example, a spell like burning hands might have a line in its description:

Usage: day (1st), encounter (5th), round (9th)

While the more powerful magic missile says

Usage: day (2nd), encounter (7th)

And game-altering spells like Teleport simply read

Usage: day (9th)

Then wizards will have relatively free choice from their known spells: A 5th level wizard might get to prepare 3 spells usable at will, 2 usable per encounter, and one usable per day.

Alternatively, their at-will abilities could come from a reserve feat-like mechanic, which would also be pretty cool.

 

[Nebulous]

I hope so! Especially if that means I can just learn Fireball instead of Lesser Flaming Orb, Fireball, Flaming Orb, Delayed Blast Fireball, and Meteor Swarm.

Agreed! Spell descriptions for individual spells can be much longer, but more in depth and cover metamagic and scaling and casting that spell at higher levels.

 

[wedgeski]

Could be still 1st level spell, but only castable once per encounter or something like that.

Awesome sig and avatar combo, BTW.

 

[Nebulous]

I can understand that at 20th level you'll never cast Burning Hands. If it ever gets to the point where you're thinking about casting Burning Hands, you're probably already dead.

And I do think they'll address that. I'm guessing that most of your vancian spell slots will be for your highest level spells, and most of the low level spells you'll get per encounter and at will.... I think they've also talked about retraining, so hopefully you'll be able to change out that burning hands for something more utilitarian from the low levels and leave the blasting spells in your high levels (with a couple in your per-encounter spells, so you don't run out).

I'd really like to see a similar set of spells stay available... I like the differences between fireball, burning hands, scorching ray, flame arrow, and meteor swarm. While certainly some are more powerful than others, there are definitely times when I'd rather have a scorching ray or a flame arrow than a fireball.... I like the variety, I like having lots of stuff to choose from so things don't get boring.... and not just per character, but from one campaign to the next.

More spells is better. I think if they use retraining to address the useless lower level slots, then we don't have to worry about burning hands taking up "space" in your character's repertoire.

-Nate

Yeah, i'm with you. I also think those individual fire spells should stick around, BUT they should also be scalable within the system. I would love to see a burning hands spell cast at 18th level, for example. Of course, i don't know how they would balance that with the "at will" feature.

Arcana Evolved had the really neat trick of "cashing in" your lower level spells to power higher level spells (and vice versa). I did this pretty often. You burned up your 3rd level spells? Start converting 2nd and 1st level slots to give your sorcerous blast another rip.