Ong-bak

[mmu1]

Do all action movies have to be realistic for you to enjoy them?

No, they don't - but I just don't see much point in having a "no CGI, no slow-mo, no wires, no stuntmen" approach if you then still try to use it to create over the top, completely unrealistic fights. That's just called having no budget.

And I did enjoy the movie... but I did, for example, like Unleashed a lot better.

 

[mmu1]

Time will tell if Jaa has the chops to make it as a movie star. He's certainly got the moves and the will. But to say he lacks the megawatt charisma of Jet Li is like saying he lacks the prettiness of Ekin Cheung; true enough, but hardly anyone doesn't.

You lost me there... Is Ekin Cheung notoriously ugly, or are you saying Jet Li doesn't come across as rather wooden in most of his US-released work?

 

[Ranger REG]

And I did enjoy the movie... but I did, for example, like Unleashed a lot better.

Meh. If you ask me, Jet Li's and Jackie Chan's films made in the US/West for the US/West aren't so hot. They're better off making films in China.

Just another attempt by the Americans to bastardize yet another Asian import.

[image placeholder: rolleyes smiley]

 

[mmu1]

Meh. If you ask me, Jet Li's and Jackie Chan's films made in the US/West for the US/West aren't so hot. They're better off making films in China.

Just another attempt by the Americans to bastardize yet another Asian import.

[image placeholder: rolleyes smiley]

Damn those Americans for holding Li's and Chan's children hostage and making them do those movies. Damn theeeem!!!

 

[takyris]

Alright. I will trust the Barsoom. The Barsoom has been wise in the past.

And I think we have it in the DVD collection at work, too, so I can just check it out for free.

And yes, what's happening with Jackie Chan here in the states is a travesty. One of my friends thinks that it's because he's getting older and hears the clock ticking and wants one last chance to make it big in the states... which, apparently, leads to The Medallion somehow seeming like a good idea.

 

[Ranger REG]

And yes, what's happening with Jackie Chan here in the states is a travesty. One of my friends thinks that it's because he's getting older and hears the clock ticking and wants one last chance to make it big in the states... which, apparently, leads to The Medallion somehow seeming like a good idea.

Nah. It's them so-called American-made Hollywood thinktanks who lack one thing: creative juice.

Which is why it's a good thing them LOTR films are not directed by Steven Spielberg or George Lucas. :\

 

[ShrinkyLink]

Ummm...do I get cred for actually being a martial arts student? (American Kenpo, Orange Belt).

The story is bad, the acting is hammy when it isn't non-existent. But the martial arts and stunts are very enjoyable. What I really liked about Jaa was his speed--sure, I'm not sure he really could take down some of the characters he does in this film, but his technique is still fun to watch.

And that's another thing 'Ong Bak' does right: it allows you to see the fights. No montage of quick cuts and sloppy editing: you see the fights, and even see some of the more memorable scenes again in slo-mo.

But Humlau will haunt your dreams. Be warned.

 

[barsoomcore]

You lost me there... Is Ekin Cheung notoriously ugly, or are you saying Jet Li doesn't come across as rather wooden in most of his US-released work?

Neither.

Ekin Cheung is notoriously pretty, and Jet Li has huge amounts of charisma, personality and acting chops. Watch his great films: My Father Is A Hero, Fong Sai-Yuk, Swordsman II, or Once Upon A Time In China. The man is a HUGE star for some very good reasons: his kung-fu is strong, but more importantly he's IMMENSELY charming, and he can act. That his charm and his chops have not been used in his recent films I agree. But watch the man's big pictures. He's a star for a reason.

Likewise, just to offer my two bits on both his and Jackie's receptions in Hollywood -- there ARE directors who know how to manage these guys. Shanghai Noon and Rush Hour are the best two films Jackie's made since the mid-90's (with a nod and a "maybe" to Who Am I?).

I think a couple of things are conspiring against these two: firstly, their age. They simply can't do what they used to be able to do. Their bodies can't take the punishment any more. That said, they ought to be looking for less action-oriented roles. Both of these guys can ACT. Jackie has said, though, that he's afraid nobody wants to see him acting, they just want to see him kick butt. I say it's time Jackie (and Jet, though I think with him it's less problematic; he's not as old) stepped away from the action roles and looked for some acting to do. The man is a gifted physical comedian with all kinds of range and expressiveness -- surely he can find something he can do. But Jackie seems obsessed with "success" in Hollywood and is frankly embarrassing himself in his pursuit of it. He's started blaming the poor performance of his films on the scripts, the directors, the whatever. I don't disagree with his assessment, but I wish he were showing a little more class.

Secondly, the environment in which they made their great films is gone. You just can't casually throw actresses out of helicopters or onto moving trains the way you used to in Hong Kong -- and you haven't been able to do that in Hollywood in decades. The legal consequences are too severe for anyone to risk it, and so you just don't see the kind of bruising sequences you find in their earlier films.

But I don't buy the argument that Hollywood has "ruined" them. It doesn't wash. The Medallion wasn't directed by some American dope; it was directed by Gordon Chan, who did, among other things, Fist of Legend, which, while it's not my favourite Jet Li film, is certainly an integral part of the Li canon. The guy isn't inexperienced, nor is he a Hollywood hack. And yet The Medallion was utter trash. And Jackie's HK movies have been, if anything, WORSE than his Hollywood ones. Gorgeous? That film was embarrassing.

 

[takyris]

Shrinkylink: Woohoo for Kenpo! I study a derivative of American Kenpo.

...Jet Li has huge amounts of charisma, personality and acting chops. Watch his great films: My Father Is A Hero, Fong Sai-Yuk, Swordsman II, or Once Upon A Time In China.

I just watched Swordsman 2 and Once Upon a Time in China for work. Loved the latter. Perhaps the subtitling hurt my enjoyment of the former. "Now you fear my Holland ship!" has become an iconic line in my office, and watching the concubine grovel at the feet of the villain and scream through her tears, "I puzzled now. If you going, I am die," set me howling. The version I'm watching is legal, but English is perhaps fifth out of the seven languages it could be subtitled in.

As for Once Upon a Time in China, loved the fighting, loved the story, but was confused by the dubbing. I hate dubbing, generally speaking, and no matter what language I chose to show it in, parts were dubbed. My Chinese buddy suggested that it was due to regional slang or switching between Mandarin and Cantonese, something like that.

Ironically, I don't always like Li's kung-fu -- not his ability, but his choreogrpahy. In too many movies, I see his kicks turn into pushes, where it becomes graceful and beautiful but loses the passion that I want to see in a fight. In other movies this isn't a problem, but I'm guessing it's a dancing background or something.

Also just recently watched The One. That was a tragedy. A really interesting and good movie trapped inside a really bad movie. I loved the differentiation between good Law and evil Law in the end fight -- good stuff. Loved parts of the story. But somewhere, an editor is laughing uproariously about what he did to the plot of that movie, and how he left the audience to infer lots of important stuff, sometimes in contradictory ways. Ah, well.

Likewise, just to offer my two bits on both his and Jackie's receptions in Hollywood -- there ARE directors who know how to manage these guys. Shanghai Noon and Rush Hour are the best two films Jackie's made since the mid-90's (with a nod and a "maybe" to Who Am I?).

Totally agree. Liked both of these a lot. He got to be a comedian, and he got paired with someone who could play well with him (I liked Owen Wilson and Chris Tucker in those movies as well for what they enabled Jackie to do).

But I don't buy the argument that Hollywood has "ruined" them. It doesn't wash. The Medallion wasn't directed by some American dope; it was directed by Gordon Chan, who did, among other things, Fist of Legend, which, while it's not my favourite Jet Li film, is certainly an integral part of the Li canon. The guy isn't inexperienced, nor is he a Hollywood hack. And yet The Medallion was utter trash. And Jackie's HK movies have been, if anything, WORSE than his Hollywood ones. Gorgeous? That film was embarrassing.

Wow. I'm shocked to hear that the Medallion wasn't directed by an American dope. Watching the clumsiness of the action scenes -- at least, once the special effects are involved, and especially the ones involving the big bad guy -- I'd just assumed... man. That's really too bad.

In my mental categorization, it gets one and a half stars out of ten -- half a star for the pre-Medallion action scenes, and one star for Claire Forlani.

 

[Desdichado]

I'll be happy to do so once you confirm that the fights are dramatically better in the rest of the movie than they were in the scene I mentioned.

For what it's worth, I thought the fights in that movie were among the best fights I've ever seen in any movie.