OOC - [Epic] Scions of the Endless Falls - Full

[Isida Kep'Tukari]

perivas, SR 70 is rather silly. I'd rather you dial it back some. That's more than some demi gods have.

Kelleris, I didn't have time to nit-pick everyone's individual items, but I do start to cry when I see that weapon. The enhancement bonus is nutty in your hands and the poison DC is crazy. All those slight modifications keep adding up to one absolute monster of a weapon... However, if we name this beast an artifact, as was suggested earlier, we can make this work. You better be slaying some gods with that crazy thing!

Clerical character will still be able to get their spells, as you will be drawing on some of the might left from the Endless Falls. Some minor gods that opposed the big players died along with your world, so there is some free divine power swirling around there. Don't worry, you'll be ok for your spells. And that could explain the reason a celestial might be in the party, if one of their gods was killed.

 

[Kelleris]

*sigh*

I'm amazed that +40 or better saves don't make the headlines, but given Wrahn's absolutely stunning rebuttal, I guess I'll just content myself with actually having roll saving throws.

The save DC for the nightmare spell has a +2 bonus figured from the basis of the psionatrices (sp?), and a +10 from the spell itself, a bonus granted when you have a piece of the target in your possession (hence the blood adhering to the blade bit). It should have a high save DC because the effect is relatively minor - they have to fail about half their saves or I'm really just wasting my time. It's not an instant death effect - if you don't have a fair chance of blowing it, hoping for a 3 is utterly pointless. Arcane casters are harder hit, but they have very good Will saves. Aside from that, when the party fighter has to roll all of a -4 to save against this effect, I overwhelmingly fail to see the problem. If everyone's going to squeeze as much cheese out of this as possible (and I've already resigned myself to the ubiquitous heavy fortification armors), I could plop an extra 10 points on that and it still wouldn't be broken.

The sword's base enhancement is what's listed there - +5 wounding vicious. The remaining enhancements have nothing whatever to do with the cost of the weapon. They all stem from the Item Familiar feat. If they were part of the weapon proper, it would probably be more like a 10-20% additional charge for the effect.

Also, the nightmare ability is a) not really at will, b) restricted to sleeping targets, and c) not really ignoring the casting time. If it was really at will, it would take effect more than once a night (and I probably ought to increase it to 1 save per hour of sleep anyway). It's obviously limited to sleep, because it says so. And intelligent items can generally activate their own effects, which makes particular sense in this case; Akumunaga can just do the 10-minute casting(s) while I'm sleeping, or walking, or [whatever].

 

[Wrahn]

Sorry, EN World has been flaky.

OneAboveAll-
I don't have Aim here at work. If you want to send me an Email it is Wrahnn(at)yahoo(dot)com.


I should note that anyone who is immune to criticals is immune to the Devastating Critical, I should also note that anyone who is immune to Mind Effecting Abilities, is likewise immune to Nightmare.

Effect over time abilities like that are obnoxious only when applied to recurring characters (such as the PCs and Major NPCs). In a stardard fight it will make little difference and PCs will be able to deal with the effect, either by shielding themselves or hunting down and removing the source. I would hesitate to use the effect on a major NPC, because that is a good excuse to get yourself dead.

 

[Kelleris]

Right... Anyway, I'm going to rework it so that it's more of a short-term recurring threat than a mere annoyance that lasts for an indefinite period of time. If I'm going to be ticking people off, I might as well get something out of it.

Hmm... Some kind of time limit on how long the blood lasts, and boost the number saves per night to 1/hour, probably. Max of 8d10 points of damage/day (highly unlikely, though), and something like 3 days plus some small number based on damage dealt or HD of the target or something.

 

[Wrahn]

perivas-

If you are looking for a high number, yet still reasonable for your Spell Resistence, I would look around 44. This is 50% chance that a dedicated caster of our level with Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration will get through. Even that may be high, but it is more reasonable.

The Cosmic Descryer can be found here. It is an epic prestige class.

Oh, and Archons are Celestials, but don't always serve dieties, they server their own hierachy like devils server their own. Not that they can't serve dieties, just that they don't have to.

 

[Ferrix]

It'd probably be the same for saves if we're mentioning the spell resistance. You figure a caster at this level has generally at best a +20-+22 to their save DC's. Now make that a 10th level spell. That's a DC 40-42. If you can pass that on all your saves without rolling a 1, something's a little fishy.

But cheese is cheese as I was thinking earlier, we've all got a little bit.

Also note, that the heavy fortification ability does not make someone immune to critical hits or sneak attacks, it just negates their direct (multiplication of damage and bonus damage dice) effects 100% of the time. Other effects like stunning attacks, or the bursting quality of a bursting weapon still go off if a critical hit is rolled. I know this has been discussed a couple of times on the WotC boards, and I find this the more appealing argument. Thus Sigrun, The Architect who has a mithril shirt of heavy fortification is still susceptible to devastating critical, overwhelming critical, etc.

 

[Ferrix]

You better be slaying some gods with that crazy thing!

Slay! Slay! Slay!

note: three hours naps are the bomb

 

[perivas]

If you are looking for a high number, yet still reasonable for your Spell Resistence, I would look around 44. This is 50% chance that a dedicated caster of our level with Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration will get through. Even that may be high, but it is more reasonable.

I don't believe that 44 is enough. It seems actually quite arbitrary. A dedicated caster at our level is more akin to a Wizard 5/Red Wizard 20/Archmage 5 with Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration and possibly, Epic Spell Penetration and a +5 level spellcaster level item which would put his check to overcome SR at about 1d20+54 to 56. That's why I started with a 70...which requires a roll 16 or 14. But, I can dial it down, if Isida thinks that it would keep her from crying.

Having looked thoroughly at building a powerful epic-level caster, I find that it is much easier to overcome SR...for which one has the benefit of levels...than overcoming one's saving throw bonuses. DC's for spells are very difficult to increase and even the most powerful builds only gets it to 44 to 46 plus the spell level, which is about 10 short of the ability to overcome SR. Given this and looking at people's saving throws, an SR around 50 to 60 is not unreasonable. Please let me know what you think Isida.

P.S., it is certainly true that some demigods do not have SR's of 70 or so, the preconstructed beings are not usually as min-maxed as PC's tend to be.

 

[Kangaxx]

Kelleris, if the nightmare ability only works on people that are sleeping, than my only qualm about it is the permanent duration, which you already said you'll change. But in the item description it implies to me that the effect happens whenever you hit something. Giving everyone you ever fight with heinous nightmares for life seems excessive.

The item familiar feat only lets you add special abilities, not enhancement bonus. I'd imagine it does that specifically to prevent what you did with it. Once again, the description wasn't clear, and I had no idea those abilities were supposed to come from the feat.

Looking over the character sheets, it seems like there's plenty of items running around where I can't tell what they do, or what slot they're supposed to take up. If I don't know what it does or how it works, I think there's a reasonable chance Isida doesn't, which is obviously unacceptable. I think any item not straight out of a book should have some explanation attached, seperate from flavor text which can muddle the mechanics.

And I agree that 2 levels of Holy Liberator is kinda cheesy, but it's strictly by the book, so if it's ok with Isida, it's ok with me. The most disturbing thing I've noticed is Ferrix's psychic surgery (sp?) schism, but that's also by the book. And, as Ferrix said, we've all got some cheese. <shuts up and gets off soapbox>

 

[Wrahn]

While I understand your argument Ferrix:

Fortification: This suit of armor or shield produces a magical force that protects vital areas of the wearer more effectively. When a critical hit or sneak attack is scored on the wearer, there is a chance that the critical hit or sneak attack is negated and damage is instead rolled normally.

They don't say that the damage is negated they say the attack is. Thus it would be my interpretation that Heavy Fortification does infact make you immune to all of those things, because the attack was negated.