[ooc] gng - nameless [4/4]

[Maerdwyn]

sound good Just want to make sure a rather heavy load wansn't going to keep me from readying my spear and shield if it happens to become quickly necessary. Poor Gwender We hardly knew ye.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I'm sorry to say I think I'm going to have to back out of this game.

I'm a little busy in real-life these days, and this is the game I haven't ever really entered, so I think I'll just quietly disappear.

 

[doghead]

a big (but pretty useless) post

Has promise, still needs tweaking, though, I'd say. (I also will just be thinking out loud here, and haven't had much sleep, so this is all "FWIWYMMV" )

Fun Where In What You Might Make Verks?

+1 Bardic level per ability, combined with the perform-based level limits on when abilities are taken means that one could not advance in bard level each time a chracter level is gained. (probably not a practical concern, as I'm not sure I can guarantee Fredar will make it to 20th level in anything , but at 20th character level, a given character could only obtain 12 bard levels). This option is still a possibility.

Taking any form of class progression is going to demand a fair bit of sacrifice. Any character taking following a spellcasting progression is going to have to sacrifice quite a lot as it will cost them 4 CP of their 8 CP per level. The goes for most of the other main class ability 'limited' progressions like Rage [9 steps], Wild shape [13'ish* steps] and Sneak Attack [10 steps]. These have a somewaht limited number of progressions available, so characters can specialise till they complete the progression or they can alternate between progressing their speciallity and improving other areas. I'm happy with this.

From fairly early on I realised that while you can build some sweet combinations, you are not going to get the breadth of a class based character. The leanness of the characters was part of the appeal for me.

* This one going to need some though for the higher levels as well.

Two other possible options:
a) +1 bard level per level of bard spell progression. Again, there is an issue of spell-less bards, and expense. A bard under that system is certainly not going to get very many other skills or feats, etc. as he'll be using almost all his CPs on bard abilities and spells (and can't be good at one without being good at the other.

b)Effective bard level equals Perform Ranks -3. This allows a character to spend a resource (skill points) to get better at only those abilities he wants to purchase, rather than having to purchase other abilities to get good at ones he already has. Also limits bardic level to the character level, and only if perform is maxed out.

I've thought about this approach. It does mean that if an high level character with quite a few ranks in perform took Bardic Music, he may be more effective than a charcter who has had Bardic Music for a number of levels. Is this a problem? Mechanically probably not. Conceptually it seem a little backwards. But it does seem to be the most straightforward.

As for the entry feat, is there a conceptual difference between the "rage1, 2, 3, trapsense etc." progression and the "inspire courage +1, +2, +3, fascinate, etc." progression ? I guess what I'm asking is what the reasoning is behind requiring an extra feat to get into the bard ability progression, but not into the pregressions of the other classes' abilities? (not saying there isn't any, just wondering how it goes)

This is a good point. Having Inspire courage a progression better parallels some of the abilities of the other classes. The use of Bardic Music as an entry was just a hold over from the original rules.

OK, to summarise

The basic issue is the manner in which the Bardic Music abilities are aquired, and determining the Bard Level in order to calculate the # of times a day they can be used.

Bardic Music Abilities:
Countersong (Su): 3 ranks,
Fascinate (Sp): 3 Ranks, 1 creature + 1 per 3 bard levels.
Inspire Courage (Su): 3 Ranks, +1 (+2 at 8th, +3 at 14th, and +4 at 20th)
Inspire Competence (Su): 6 Ranks, not affected by level.
Suggestion (Sp): 9 Ranks, Will saving vs (DC 10 + 1/2 bard level + Cha modifier)
Inspire Greatness (Su): 12 Ranks, 1 ally, 2 at 12th, 3 at 15th, 4 at 18th
Song of Freedom (Sp): 15 Ranks, caster level equals bard level
Inspire Heroics (Su): 18 Ranks, 1 creature + 1 at 18th.
Mass Suggestion (Sp): 21 ranks.

OK. It seems a little odd, but using Perform -3 as the effective Bard level does work in a reverse engineering way.

With the classless system, I was looking to give character's the ability to progress key abilities more quickly than was possible in the class system, but to limit automatic progressions.

The perform skill prereqs make Bardic Music one area in which characters will not be able to specialise in and learn quicker than in the standard class system. Its also has quite a few abilities scale with level. Humm. Tricky.

There is a simple solution somewhere. I'm going to go away and mull it over.

 

[doghead]

Hey Nac

Sorry to lose you.

I hate it when I have to post up "I'm stepping down" posts. It is so tempting to just slip away without a word. Unfortunately, many do just that. So thanks for letting me know.

Good luck.

the head of the dog.

 

[Maerdwyn]

There is a simple solution somewhere. I'm going to go away and mull it over.

Sounds good, but it need not be soon; There's a little matter of surviving 2nd level I need to deal with first, and there was rumor of a TPK floating around not long ago

 

[Stagger_Lee]

Character Notes for Stagger Lee

* soak * I'm not sure because this is my first run with gng, but this could really hurt. Something like Shield of Faith would help by increasing your Defense (even more). Mobility will as well, but only in specific situations. I'm not that familier with 3.5, so perhaps yopu've thought this all through much better than I. Just wanted to flag it in case.

* Defense * You can use your BAB or BRef. In your case your BRef is much higher than you BAB.
ie: Defense: +5 [+3 BRef, +2 Dex].

* Weapon attacks * Did your melee to hit inc str penalty? This is also reflected in the dam bonus. Added gng crits.
ie melee +0 dagger (1d4-1, 8/+0)
ie ranged +3 dagger (thrown) (1d4-1, 8/+0, 10 ft.)

* skills * you have spent 44 skill points rather than 40.

How do you see Rhys fitting into Killingtom. Its a fairly small town. I imagine there would be only a couple of orders represented there. Of couse, he could just be visiting. If there was a temple in Killingtom, then Rhys would be a little young to be its High Priest. An older Rhys could fill this role. If not, can you let me know what kind of High Priest you see Rhys working with. I was thinking about the Handmaidens. It seems to me that their emphasis on healing would be quite significant in term of how they are viewed by others.

soak - I assumed that he would acquire some light armor before actually setting out anywhere, but since he had no sort of background I left it off for now. I don't know what Shield of the Faith is off the top of my head, my 3.5 knowledge is probably spottier than yours

errors - I'll fix them in my rogue's gallery post, thanks

background - I'm going to up his age a few years, I didn't really mean to have him that young. But I would rather he wasn't the High Priest - I think ideally someone whom he could see as a protective mother figure would work out. I wasn't sure if the town would be have the specific kind of temple, and I can see it either way. I could have been dispatched from someplace larger because of all of the bloodshed, in which case I would play him a little more hardened and serious, or I could be local and just too much of a neophyte to be assigned to anything.

One thing I was thinking, if Temujin didn't mind, was that Rhys and Owen could have been friends from Rhys's street urchin days. This doesn't work so well if Rhys is from elsewhere, I suppose.

 

[doghead]

OK. The Lady's Handmaidens have a small, temple is not right word, House in the village of Killingtom. There is a Head Priestess and two other members of the Order, neither of which are spellcasters. Rhys was sent there to assist the head priest in providing aid to the villagers. Perhpass 6 months ago? The goblin activity is barely a week old at this stage, so it wouldn't be the reason for his presense. But the villagers live dangerous lives anyway and there is always a need for healers.

Yeah, picking up some armour will be possible. Shield of Faith gives you a +2 defection bonus to Defense.

Owen is not a Killingtom local either. From somewhere around the throne city probably.

Actually, linking the backgrounds of Rhys and Owen would make a certain sense. It gives Owen a reason to be in/stay in Killingtom. Perhaps Rhys assisted Owen get out of town when the heat was on. And I imagine having a friend who's handy with a weapon would be nice. Some sort of loyalty from childhood would also work. Although whatever case, the relationship need not be perfectly amicable.

Temujin, what do you think?

 

[doghead]

Sounds good, but it need not be soon; There's a little matter of surviving 2nd level I need to deal with first, and there was rumor of a TPK floating around not long ago

Really? A TPK? How about a TPDA?

Out of curiosity - what in particular are you looking for out of the bard stuff? Spellcasting? The Inspire Courage ability? Fascinate? I was just wondering.

 

[Maerdwyn]

Well, Fredar will be sticking around at least until he's dead or married

Depending on how events unfold, I'm looking at several of the bardic music effects (inspire courage, greatness, fascinate, suggestion, etc.) I probably should have taken Perform(singing), instead of woodwinds, or at least taken in instrument that I could sing while playing -- seems like it would be easier to inspire courage with lyrics instead of just melody; same with implanting a suggestion. Would that be too late to change?

The spells don't interest me overmuch; They don't seem to fit, and I'd probably be interested in regular feats, skills, and bab rather than spending the CPs for spells. I won't be getting Bardic knowledge - doesn't seem to fit either.

If Temujin's character and Fredar get along, and Fredar doesn't fall over in combat every 2 rounds, he may go for sneak attack 1 (but not likely further than that anytime soon) so they can work some nasty flanking combos.

 

[Stagger_Lee]

Sounds good. The spells also were not what I imagine he would have prepared when wandering around in a dangerous situation, just what I thought he might actually use on a normal day.