Oops I think I screwed up somehow...

[afata5]

Ok,

So i haven't DM'ed in a very long time and i'm not sure how this goes anymore.

Recently I have had an encounter where we have 3 Level 2 characters (2 type fighter, 1 rogue) were attacked by 4 NPC(I didn't really count the 5th one). Lvl 3 Sorc, lvl2 Barb, lvl2 rogue, Lvl 2 Ranger and a Lvl2 Cleric (The rogue did practically nothing...apart from a distraction, didn't really add to the fight).

Was this considered an insane TPK type situation for the characters? I assumed it would be hard (and it really was) but is it true TPK material?

I thought that it would be like an EL 5 but that the party is considered an EL 4. I was probably mistaken, but can someone explain to me how? And please be nice

Thanks,

Al

 

[pallandrome]

Yeeeup. See, four characters of second level should get a decent challenge by one enemy of the same level. Three characters of second level can be pretty easily tpk'd by that much firepower.

 

[spunky_mutters]

First of all, don't worry about what EL the party is, because that will throw things off. Just remember that they try and balance things so that a 4 person party of 25 point buy characters with all major roles covered and standard treasure for level will consume 20% of their resources in a fight of EL = party level.


This means that if they fought just the barbarian, it would be an easy encounter. Adding one more of them would make it a challenging encounter. With three more, you're far into TPK territory.

Many things will affect this calculation, and having 3 characters instead of four is a big one.

Because they're missing arcane and divine support, they will have a lot of trouble as things progress. With no healing they will have less staying power, and finishing off foes quickly becomes more important. At the same time, they will need to be careful about any risks they take.

I ran this through the chi/ro el/xp worksheet, and got a -4% chance of survival with 208% of party resources used up.

 

[afata5]

But I don't get it then...so you are saying that a Barbarian LVL 2 (human, standard class, non optimized) should be a challenge for 3 Lvl 2 characters (Mystic Thurg with manouvers i think, a an alternate druid class, and a specialized rogue that gets great bonuses when flanking..like +5 or +7..don't remember why..its a feat)...?

Sorry, guess i'm dense, but it doesn't make sense to me...

Al

 

[Nail]

So.....was it a TPK? 'Fess up, afata5.

 

[afata5]

ahhhh...ok beat me to the post..sorry about that. So 2 level 2 characters would be a big challenge for 3 lvl 2 characters...or 3 Level 2 players would have a problem against 1 Lvl 3 Sorc then right?

Thanks btw...

-Al

 

[afata5]

nah, wasn't a TPK at all...once I saw how quickly the players were diminishing in HP (especially after a Color Spry spell), the NPC's kinda didn't play as intelegently...figured if I would make screw up on the calculation of the encounter, then I wouldn't make them pay for my mistake, I would just make it hard as hell on them, but not so hard as they would all die.
Example, the Babarian would hit the fighter once, then be hit by the Druid, so he would turn his attention on the druid etc...no focussin on one character till it was down...and the rogue hid most of the time, shooting an arrow but mostly missing).

I fudged up, so i didn't make the party pay for that...although I will be giving less XP most likely due to not playing the NPC in a smart way. The cleric for example, didn't cast any spells except a cure light wounds on himself once...

Either way, the players had a great time and sweated alot, and it ended with everyone standing up and cheering when the last one went down with a critical hit...

Just wanted to understand so I wouldn't make such a mistake again

-Al

 

[pallandrome]

For an evenly balanced party of four, a single NPC of the same level should take up about 25% of the partys resources (HP, spells, and so forth) to defeat. But you have 3 characters, in a not so balanced party, so call it 33%. Throw in two more baddies of the same level, and its pretty much a toss up between who will win (3 2nd level vs 3 2nd levels = 50% chance to survive). Now toss in ANOTHER 2nd level NPC for the bad guys, and a 3rd level NPC as well, and the chances that your party will live just took a DRASTIC nose-dive.

 

[pallandrome]

Either way, the players had a great time and sweated alot, and it ended with everyone standing up and cheering when the last one went down with a critical hit...

-Al

THIS! This right here means you didn't mess up. This means you did your job as a GM perfectly. While balancing an encounter makes doing this sort of thing EASIER, if you got this kind of reaction out of your players, you did juuuust fine.

 

[afata5]

But the XP part is now what I have to calculate. I would say that this encounter used up about 95% of the XP...so I calculate it at about EL3?

What do you guys think?

Thanks once again for your aid!

-Al