OotS 406

[Hussar]

Whoa. Just... whoa.

Well done.

 

[ruleslawyer]

A polymorphed demon interested in taking over the world... that's in command of a legion of paladins.

Talk about suicidal.

Um, how?

This sounds like the classic fiend of corruption plotline to me. Conniving, charismatic fiend infiltrates Lawful Good religious order. Said fiend subtly influences order to undertake evil deeds "for the good of the people," or "for the greater good," or "in the name of [x]." Said fiend simultaneously brings into the picture a bunch of sketchy allies/cohorts.\

IMHO, almost everything that makes Miko's behavior controversial here is driven by reader knowledge. We *know* that Shojo is an okay guy. We know that the OotS is, by and large, not such a bad bunch of folks (Belkar excepted). We know that they're not plotting with Xykon to take over the city. But Miko doesn't know those things. The only really unreasonable thing she does is to physically attack Shojo without justification.

 

[LoneWolf23]

Um, how?

This sounds like the classic fiend of corruption plotline to me. Conniving, charismatic fiend infiltrates Lawful Good religious order. Said fiend subtly influences order to undertake evil deeds "for the good of the people," or "for the greater good," or "in the name of [x]." Said fiend simultaneously brings into the picture a bunch of sketchy allies/cohorts.\

IMHO, almost everything that makes Miko's behavior controversial here is driven by reader knowledge. We *know* that Shojo is an okay guy. We know that the OotS is, by and large, not such a bad bunch of folks (Belkar excepted). We know that they're not plotting with Xykon to take over the city. But Miko doesn't know those things. The only really unreasonable thing she does is to physically attack Shojo without justification.

...And, what, that's not enough? Even if you take reader knowledge out of the equation, she's basically acting impulsively (chaotic) and reacting out of anger and hubris (Evil). She's also betraying her vows of loyalty to her liege in order to avenge what she considers a stain on her honor and the honor of the Sapphire Guard, without even taking into consideration the needs of the greater good...

I just can't accept those being the actions of a Lawful Good Paladin. At best, she acted Chaotically out of an emotional impulse. At worst, she acted Evilly out of selfish reasons.

Either way, she lost her Paladinhood.

 

[LoneWolf23]

And if I may add...

Miko's fall pretty much mirrors the fall of Warcraft's Prince Arthas: A Paladin becoming both so convinced they're holier and more righteous then everyone else, and so obsessed with hatred against someone else, that the become completly blind to how dark and twisted their actions are becoming...

 

[Nightfall]

Yeah only at least Arthus made a much cooler looking Death Knight and then Lich king.

 

[Ripzerai]

I wonder if her pantheon has a god of vengeance, and what the alignment of that god might be?

If she worships a version of the Chinese pantheon similar to the AD&D one, then the god of vengeance is Lei Kung, the Duke of Thunder, and he's lawful evil. I know that the society here is more Japanese, but what we've seen of their gods looks more Chinese to me.

 

[Deuce Traveler]

Won't somebody please think of poor Mr. Scruffy?

I bet Belkar gets the cat.

 

[Deuce Traveler]

Heh, Mr. Scruffy is a cat, he'll do alright. Heck, mebbe Belkar'll adopt him.

Great minds...

 

[ruleslawyer]

...And, what, that's not enough? Even if you take reader knowledge out of the equation, she's basically acting impulsively (chaotic) and reacting out of anger and hubris (Evil). She's also betraying her vows of loyalty to her liege in order to avenge what she considers a stain on her honor and the honor of the Sapphire Guard, without even taking into consideration the needs of the greater good...

I just can't accept those being the actions of a Lawful Good Paladin. At best, she acted Chaotically out of an emotional impulse. At worst, she acted Evilly out of selfish reasons.

Either way, she lost her Paladinhood.

I would have to disagree. Miko has a perfectly plausible rationale for her actions. She did NOT act out of an emotional impulse.

1) The early warning beacons were destroyed, in a manner that bespoke treachery rather than outside action.

2) Shojo admits that the paladins are an inconvenience to his manner of governance.

3) Shojo rigged the OotS trial, up to and including having some random ghost-dude impersonate a celestial rendering judgment.

4) Miko prayed to the 12 Gods that the betrayers would be revealed to her, and she showed up at Shojo's throne room just in time to hear him tell Roy how it's been.

I'd say Miko is guilty of acting *impulsively,* but not *chaotically.* She is dispensing justice not as *she* deems fit, but as she believes the *gods* would deem fit. I find this hard to deem anything other than LG behavior.

There's a gigantic difference between how Miko acts and how Arthas cts, incidentally. Miko lashes out against someone she sees as evil and a traitor. She's acting to preserve her city against what she sees as an imminent threat. And, according to what she's heard, she has probable cause to believe that there exists a conspiracy that threatens the security of Azure City.

Is this a misunderstanding of tragic and immense proportions? Yes. Is this the sort of fomented discord that Demogorgon would give one of his heads to create? Yes. But is it the result of chaotic or evil acts on Miko's part? That I don't see.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Exactly. Shojo has been underhanded, devious, and manipulative for the greater good. He has subjected himself to ridicule and serious inconvenience (with the senile act). He could have achieved a bit of safety in far more evil ways, but he chooses to NOT kill those who would wish to assassinate him, but rather to suffer indignity. Self-Sacrifice: It's Good(tm).

Okay, in defense of my half-cocked theory:

He can't rule over it with his manipulative little hands if the Snarl destroys it all.

Was it for the Greater Good of Everyone? Or is his manipulation and deviousness for the Greater Good of Himself as he sat high and mighty on the throne supping on porridge and manipulating paladins for his own twisted amusement? Do we *know* he was telling the truth to the Order? Or was he just using their belief in their own righteousness to advance his own ends...which only happen to be in the world's best interest by chance.

I mean, he's such a shady dealer, he can't be keeping the world alive out of respect for the people that inhabit the world. He's probably keeping the world alive because *he* wants to be alive, and the Paladins might just muck it all up for him.

It might be a half-cocked theory, but it's a plausible half-cocked theory.