OotS 406

[Mouseferatu]

I'd remind everyone that Shojo and his casters tried summon a real Celestial. Roy's father interceded, and only then made his deal with Shojo.

Just something to keep in mind when debating his alignment and methods.

 

[Storyteller01]

I'd say Miko is guilty of acting *impulsively,* but not *chaotically.* She is dispensing justice not as *she* deems fit, but as she believes the *gods* would deem fit. I find this hard to deem anything other than LG behavior.

Unless the gods themselves specifically told her that Shojo must die, she wasn't acting under the paladin's code of honor.

Is this a misunderstanding of tragic and immense proportions? Yes. Is this the sort of fomented discord that Demogorgon would give one of his heads to create? Yes. But is it the result of chaotic or evil acts on Miko's part? That I don't see.

Just because she doesn't believe she's being evil doesn't mean she isn't. The fastest road to hell...

 

[Seonaid]

Triple-length strip! All right!

"She has that Monk class ability that lets you jump as far as you want, only for her, it applies to conclusions." Best line ever. Ahhh, monks.

"[T]hey can teach you how to detect Evil, but not sarcasm??" Second-best line ever. Ahhh, paladins.

Oh god, if she gets Smite Good and doesn't know she's fallen and gone blackguard it'll only reinforce her delusions.

Exactly. Gotta love it!

Of course if she had dected evil and then smited you would get all the paladin haters going detect evil is not good enough for all she knew the poor man had a spell that cursed him with dectecting evil even though he was good.

I agree. Can't please 'em all!

Shojo's not dead. He hasn't given his dying words speech to HinjoMiko yet.

FIFY.

What if he's secretly her father?

Exactly.

"The Belkster don't have time for the fuglies"

I was just thinking that same thing.

I think this because I think the old man is evil. Think about it. Everyone here is all "Oh, poor old man. Oh, bad bad Miko." Rich is playing everyone at this moment and is doing it beautifully! But never once did anything in the script point to the old man not being evil.

Of course, now that you've said this, Rich is going to do something different from this, and everything everyone else has thought.

Be funny if this was all a set up for his benefit...

Now that would be awesome. And quite Rich-like. Damn you for coming up with this! Now it ain't gonna happen!

Talk about [Craft: Disturbing Mental Images].

QFT. Ewww.

 

[Nyeshet]

Miko has fallen, but she is not yet a Blackguard.

Personally, I think that during the fight with Roy, Belkar, and Hinjo she will realise her paladin powers are gone. Rather than think she is being punished for breaking her code, I think she will turn on the gods, believing they too are in the wrong. I think she will survive the fight, and later on she will appear again - likely as a blackguard. She will not be serving Xykon, however, as she believes him to be evil and thus one of her (several) foes. Instead, I think she will be fighting on her own.

Also, as I recall, didn't Belkar learn he might kill Miko's mount? I don't think it was specified that the mount would be the same one that Miko currently (or, rather, formerly) rode. I think instead that Belkar will slay Miko's next - fiendish - mount.

Note that while she stated to Shojo, etc that she had prayed to have the betrayers revealed, the flashback shows her praying to "see through their lies to the truth." She equated lying with betrayal. So while the deities granted the letter of her request (arriving just in time to learn of the truth), she misinterpreted this to mean those lying were those betraying - due to her own personal view.


In any case, this strip had several great lines, great action and drama, and an excellent cliff hanger. I look forward to the next strip.

 

[Nyeshet]

That's Chaotic, but not necessarily Evil. No interest in ethics -- clearly not Lawful. He considers that the end justifies the means, so as long as the ends are good, he can be Good.

Not quite.

If the ends are good and the means non-evil, then CG or NG can apply.

If the ends are good but the means are evil, then CN or NN apply. This, however, is a slippery slope that can easily lead to CE or NE, depending on how often the means are evil and how evil the means become. Minor but often / consistent evil acts or just one or two moderate to major evil acts and the fact that Good will result no longer prevents alignment change for the character causing these 'means' to occur.

Lord Shojo, however, is not evil. I would peg him as NG with chaotic leanings. He might be CG, but I think his paladins would have noticed something by now if that were the case, as consistent chaotic acts tend to stand out - especially after 47 years of lordship. Just running the city and keeping it organized and orderly likely is enough of a limit upon his character. He commits so many lawful leaning acts in following the dictates of his position, that his chaotic acts are not enough to fully result in a slide into Chaotic alignment - at least in my opinion. Thus I view him as NG - with chaotic leanings.

 

[Nyaricus]

Welcome to the Dark Side, Miko.

Immediately, Anakim Skywalked killing all those dune people came to mind while reading thisw comic strip; "Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering."

Hello 'Fallen Paladin' status, Ms. Miko

cheers,
--N

 

[Nyeshet]

Xykon probably knows.

Actually, I was under the impression that Xykon was scrying Miko solely because he does *not* know.

Which brings to mind another issue. It is entirely possible that Xykon was scrying Miko during the altercation. I wonder how he might make use of this?

 

[Rystil Arden]

Actually, I was under the impression that Xykon was scrying Miko solely because he does *not* know.

Which brings to mind another issue. It is entirely possible that Xykon was scrying Miko during the altercation. I wonder how he might make use of this?

If he teleported in right now and congratulated the Order of the Stick for their aid and complicity in his evil plans (just to watch Miko fall faster, of course), it would make me laugh.

 

[Nyeshet]

I bet Belkar gets the cat.

You know, Belkar is a 10-11th level Ranger (with a level of Barbarian), but he does not (at the moment, at least), have an animal companion. Should he take the cat, wouldn't that significantly empower the cat? +2 HD, +2 Natural armor, +1 Str/Dex, Link, Share Spells (useless, granted), and Evasion. That cat really will seem to have nine lives after that! The only flaw with this plan that I see is that the cat is not on the druids RaW list of potential animal companions. Oddly enough, the dog *is* on the list . . . . I get the feeling the developers may have a bias here . . . .

If [Xykon] teleported in right now and congratulated the Order of the Stick for their aid and complicity in his evil plans (just to watch Miko fall faster, of course), it would make me laugh.

That could be interesting, especially as it might cause Hinjo to consider believing Miko, perhaps even taking her side / joining her against the OotS. On the other hand, Xykon by himself might be at a slight disadvantage, as everyone in the throne room would attack him. But I think he will wait on using that Teleport spell until he can actually see the gate (or the door leading to it) in his scrying crystal.

 

[Grog]

I'd say Miko is guilty of acting *impulsively,* but not *chaotically.* She is dispensing justice not as *she* deems fit, but as she believes the *gods* would deem fit. I find this hard to deem anything other than LG behavior.

So, by your interpretation, how could anyone ever lose their paladin status?

Say I'm a paladin. I'm in a village that was attacked by orcs yesterday. The orcs had some knowledge of the village's defenses and so were able to kill a lot of people before they were finally driven off. I know that a teenage boy was seen going into the woods yesterday from which the orc raiding party came from.

So I walk up to this teenage boy in the street and brutally cut him down with my sword. I figure that he was working with the orcs and told them the weak points in the village's defenses. After all, he was seen going into the forest where the orcs came from, the orcs had knowledge of the village's defenses, and the boy wasn't hurt in the attack. That's good enough for me. This defenseless boy dies in the street like a dog.

According to you, I'd still be a paladin. What you're saying is that as long as someone can justify their actions to themselves, no matter how thin the justification actually is, they won't lose their paladin status. I don't think it's supposed to work that way - and it certainly doesn't in the games I run.