OotS 406

[Klaus]

"Respect legitimate authority" seems to be in the code somewhere.

The strip clearly counterpoints the way a true paladin should act (Hinjo's suggestions of calling the magistrates, arresting his uncle, dealing with the horde first) with the way a misguided paladin acts in his way to a fall (Miko's actions).

 

[Jolly Giant]

"Respect legitimate authority" seems to be in the code somewhere.

Yes, but whether or not Shojo could be considered a legitimate authority at the time is questionable. Miko certainly didn't think so. Myself, I think he was.

Even if he wasn't though, Miko setting abandoning the laws and killing him like that is enough for her to loose her paladinhood IMHO.

 

[delericho]

This is all well and good, but you have the slight problem that the correct legal verdict was reached, even though the verdict was prejudged.

The Order of the Stick actually were guilty of the crime of which they were accused, alveit only through Elan's incompetence.

Edit: Additionally, the beings who pre-judged the trial (Shojo and Roy's Dad) aren't the beings who have the right to judge the trial. If they'd really wanted to be sure, they should have called in those Celestial beings of Law to ask their opinion. Of course they didn't, because they couldn't be sure that said beings would give the convenient result.

It was prejudged with a full review of the evidence (provided by Roy's father, which is presumably accurate), and nothing broght forth at the trial itself changed the information Shojo had on hand before he sent Miko out to retrive the OotS. So, even though it was a "show trial" it was only a "show trial" in the sense that the facts were already known, and the legally correct outcome already known to everyone except for the members of the Sapphire Guard.

The outside observer, though, will always be left with the question: what if something had come up during the trial that by rights should have changed the verdict? Would the outcome have been the same? Or would justice have been done?

There is no way the outside observer can ever tell. Therefore, there will now always be a doubt as to the effectiveness of the legal process. And that is damaging to the society (or at least the Sapphire Guard).

In a Lawful society (or, order, in the case of the Sapphire Guard) it is vitally important not only that justice be done, but also that it be seen to be done. Where corruption like this is exposed, and even where the correct verdict results, the corruption must be thoroughly rooted out, or else the house of cards wobbles. Hence, Shojo needed to be removed (although, there again, Miko went about things in the wrong way - Shojo needed to be arrested, tried, and his actions publicly exposed. Once again, justice needs to be seen to be done to restore faith in the system).

 

[Gez]

Yes, but whether or not Shojo could be considered a legitimate authority at the time is questionable. Miko certainly didn't think so.

This has been addressed twenty thousand times already, but the legitimate authority here, even if you remove Shojo from the picture, is Hinjo.

In a Lawful society (or, order, in the case of the Sapphire Guard) it is vitally important not only that justice be done, but also that it be seen to be done.

Yeah. And Miko is completely failing here. No trial, so no inspection of the charges. If she was asked to prove her accusations against Shojo, she couldn't. She could just blurt out things such as "I know it!" and "the Gods showed me!" and fail to convince anyone.

 

[Nifft]

"Anger dries the soul;
brittle leaf ignites the Fall
of a Paladin."

-- N

 

[Andor]

Dang paladin threads.

Killing a non-evil person is NOT evil to the paladin, if said person is directly in line of causing evil or allowing evil to happen as a result of his or her action or non-actions.

If a paladin happens to serve a Lawful Neutral Lord (hoping to sway him to Good) and learns that said Lords employs assassins, for example, the paladin must:
a) Leave the Lord's service, as said Lord willingly and knowingly associates with Evil people;
b) Kill all of the assassins;
C) Bring the Lord who hired them to justice, or summarily execute him on the spot for his transgressions.

Remember, the Law in Paladin's Lawful Good is Divine Law, not "law and order" law.

Nope. A Paladins law is both divine law and the law of the land. That's the 'respect legitimite authority' part. That's why being a paladin is rough. If you could ignore mundane law there would be no tension in playing a paladin.

Secondly a Paladin may not himself associate with evil, there's nothing that says he must prevent others from associating with evil. By your logic paladins would be required to kill every bartender in a bad neigborhood for knowingly serving drinks to thugs. I don't know about your GM, but if my paladin started walking into dockside bars and gutting the waitstaff it would be sayonara paladinhood.

 

[delericho]

Secondly a Paladin may not himself associate with evil, there's nothing that says he must prevent others from associating with evil. By your logic paladins would be required to kill every bartender in a bad neigborhood for knowingly serving drinks to thugs.

WT...?

Since when does "prevent(ing) others from associating with evil" == "required to kill..."?

I actually agree with your point, but this bit just seems so far out there as to be absurd.

 

[Andor]

"Anger dries the soul;
brittle leaf ignites the Fall
of a Paladin."

-- N

All belief differs,
and so a paladin thread
ends in a standoff.

-Andor

 

[Andor]

WT...?

Since when does "prevent(ing) others from associating with evil" == "required to kill..."?

I actually agree with your point, but this bit just seems so far out there as to be absurd.

I was extending the example I quoted. It was intended to be absurd.

 

[Nifft]

All belief differs,
and so a paladin thread
ends in a standoff.

-Andor

Excellent!

"Like a bitter leaf,
the Paladin's soul may Fall.
But it's Spring in Oz."

-- N