OotS 452

[2WS-Steve]

It didn't seem to me to be a rag on lawful-stupid either, just a little story showing the range of human reactions to a situation that looks really bad.

Either that or showing the range of morale check results!

 

[2nd Ed Paladin]

But, again, if you are lawful and believe that lying is always wrong, then you do believe that you should not lie no matter the circumstance. Actual real people believe things like this, it's hardly a 'fanatical' or 'extreme' position. Actual real people believe things like 'Don't dance no matter the circumstance'. [U]Now, a player could play a character who was lawful and believed lying was wrong correctly, and that character might still occasionally lie, but the character would not believe that he had been right to do so[/U]. Follow that?

I don't even consider myself 'lawful', but it's not a trivial argument to suggest that there is wisdom in crowds, or that tradition represents time tested wisdom and its highly unlikely (and involves a degree of hubris) to suggest that your decisions are likely to be more wise than the tested wisdom of many people over a long time. So, it would be interesting to see a lawful played like that, with the sincere belief that something other than his own judgment was a better guide to living well than his own judgment.

The portion emphasized would be my definition of Lawful good. I had inferred from the post I quoted that you were saying all LG = LS. Lawful stupid would be a PC that never lies, not even to save a thousand babies from being sent to the Abyss or the "detect evil and kill" type of paladin. My point was Lawful Stupid isn't all LG PCs, only those played to the extreme end of the LG spectrum. Whether the PCs or players are stupid is irrelevant as LS is the slang term used for characters played that way.

 

[Celebrim]

The portion emphasized would be my definition of Lawful good.

Ok

I had inferred from the post I quoted that you were saying all LG = LS.

Ok. Glad that that has been cleared up.

Lawful stupid would be a PC that never lies, not even to save a thousand babies from being sent to the Abyss or the "detect evil and kill" type of paladin.

Wait a minute, I thought you had agreed to my definition of LG? I said a LG character in a moment of weakness might lie if he thought that in doing so it would save a 1000 babies, but a LG character as I said would not think that he had been right to do so. Rather, a lawful good character would always believe that there was an even better alternative to lying, because the LG character believes that lying is wrong by definition. This same character might well believe that when he choose not to lie, and the babies died that he had done the right thing. Afterall, he could have lied and the babies still might have died, and by lying he accomplished less than notiong. He might be tormented about whether he'd really done the right thing, or whether the babies died because of some other failing on his part (lack of faith, for example), but he couldn't believe that in lying he had done the right thing and remain LG (assuming 'lying is wrong' had been his ethical code to begin with). Now, a LG person might be wrong to believe these things, but he would not perforce be stupid for believing them.

As for 'detect evil and kill', its hard to make a judgment about that unless we live in a universe with actual 'detect evil'. In my experience, the problem stems from the DM not communicating to said Paladin's player what the rules of the particular universe will be as much as it does from hard headedness on the Paladin's players part.

 

[Nerfwright]

I have a craving to see Durkon do... something right about now. Maybe some dramatic, effective, and CG rule-bendy Thor-fu?

NW

 

[PrinceXaxor]

Re-reading it, no matter who stayed or went, they didn't have a chance. You can see the defenders being trampled in the last panel. One wonders what will happen with so many hobgoblins within the city now. I wouldn't be surprised if the Order has to actually retreat.

 

[Jakar]

This strip has a 300 feel to it.

 

[Grog]

I don't understand how this particular strip evoked a "lawful stupid" reaction anyway.

The soldiers who stayed weren't being stupid. It's just that they were willing to fight to the last breath to defend their homeland, even knowing it meant their almost certain deaths. In many circles that would be considered, you know, heroic.

Did anyone seriously read that strip and come away thinking, "Hah, what a bunch of suckers!"

How about the soldiers themselves? "Okay, all the rest of us who are too dumb to run...."

 

[Beckett]

This strip has a 300 feel to it.

No, that was a few weeks ago. ("but I don't want to fight in the shade!")

 

[Sejs]

If we all try to run away, some of us will inevitably be left behind, as the boat-loading process is relatively slow.

It's also important to note for those people running away to the 'safety' of the boats...


...there arn't any boats left at this point. They're gone. Those soldiers running away are running away to nothing.

 

[Jdvn1]

It's also important to note for those people running away to the 'safety' of the boats...


...there arn't any boats left at this point. They're gone. Those soldiers running away are running away to nothing.

I doubted my memory that there were none left, since one of the guards said he heard there were some left. But, yeah, good point.

Either way, even if there were boats, it'd be pointless.