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D&D 5E Open Interpretation Inspirational Healing Compromise.

What do you think of an open interpretation compromise.

  • Yes, let each table/player decide if it's magical or not.

    Votes: 41 51.3%
  • No, inspirational healing must explicit be non-magical.

    Votes: 12 15.0%
  • No, all healing must explicit be magical.

    Votes: 12 15.0%
  • Something else. Possibly taco or a citric curry.

    Votes: 15 18.8%

How about...

Words and Deeds
Just as bards use language to tap into the primal forces of creation, so do warlords.

Of course, those who demand TOTAL NON-MAGIC are going to be disappointed, but I can't figure out a way to to make a total nonmagical warlord do much more than a battlemaster already is,
Well of course, it makes the Warlord explicitly magical, like the Bard. If that were acceptable, we'd just play Valor Bards. And, it's not remotely a 'compromise,' being functionally identical to saying 'no Warlord at all, ever.' The OP, which still substantially undermines the concept, looks very reasonable by contrast. A description that was true to the concept, but open to re-interpretation or alternate opinions, would be even more reasonable, giving people basically the class they want, but allowing anyone at the same table with it to rationalize away the objectionable bits. (Assuming only an honest objection to a few very specific things being done 'without magic' is the issue.)

so its the compromise for getting SuperAwesome warlord abilities....
How about the actual compromise of the Warlord being true to concept, but getting balanced abilities, thus being no more powerful than the existing classes? I can't speak for everyone, but I know I'd much rather play a balanced version of a class I that's true to the concept I want, than a broken version of one that isn't.
 
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Perhaps you are correct! Something makes me think that even if a Warlord was presented that had "magical" healing, it wouldn't be acceptable to people that dislike the Warlord. Conversely, something makes me think that if there was some other option for non-magic healing presented that wasn't the Warlord, that wouldn't be acceptable to those that like the Warlord. In short, while the whole magic v. non-magic healing is interesting, it's really kind of a side issue.

But maybe I'm misunderstanding what's going on.

The Cleric and any other class using healing spells can just say that they use the relevant spell and hit points are regained automatically. The Warlord could do the same thing in 4e and the argument from it's proponents is that it should have the same in 5e. It is not acceptable to a significant group for anything that isn't magic to be as reliable and effective as something that is. Hence the people perfectly willing to "compromise" if there's "proper" limits, whether they're temporary hit points or it only works if the target is over half hp or it can't bring someone from below zero or requires a healing kit or some sort of skill roll - anything, frankly, so that JediGrandmaster doesn't have to change the world view that magic is superior in every way to non-magic.
 

There are four issues regarding warlord healing. I'll try to boil them down.

1.) Should a warlord be able to restore hit points in combat?
2.) Should a warlord be able to restore hit points using only his voice?
3.) Should a warlord be able to restore hit points using only his voice when the target is unconscious or "wounded"?
4.) Should a warlords ability to restore hit points be considered magical or non-magical?

The 4e warlord says "yes" to the first three and "nonmagical" to the fourth. There is a belief this doesn't gel with 5e's interpretation on hp and healing though, but people disagree on which limit they wish to place. For some, they'd be fine with 1-3 if 4 is answered "magical". Others say if 1-2 is fine for non-magical, but 3 is magical. Others things 1 should be nonmagical, but 2-3 magical. Some thing the warlord shouldn't be magical at all, while others are fine with a little magic if it means getting more options. In the end, someone is going to lose.
 

yes, because someone trained to warp reality should have the advantage....

When they pay a premium for it, sure. Shadowrun makes you put your A or B option into "able to cast magic". Meaning those who dont cast have higher stats, skills, cybernetics, etc than those that do. You need to spend edge points in Deadlands to even buy the skill points in various magical arts.

D&D on the other hand, lets spellcasters advance at the same rate, with no real tradeoff, then expects us to accept that magic is rare because... reasons. It's no harder to advance as a wizard than a fighter, so why the hell aren't most NPC slinging magic like crazy? Magic should replace tech in D&D, particularly since it's more reliable than our technology (when was the last time your mending spell failed because of poor network coverage or a virus or a crash?) to the extent that at least every noble should have basic magical training. If anything, magic in D&D should be WORSE than skills when applicable, because you get to repick your superpowers each day, but your skill choices are fixed. It's the whole case of the specific tool beating the swiss army knife.
 

Well of course, it makes the Warlord explicitly magical, like the Bard. If that were acceptable, we'd just play Valor Bards. And, it's not remotely a 'compromise,' being functionally identical to saying 'no Warlord at all, ever.' The OP, which still substantially compromises the concept, looks very reasonable, by contrast. A description that was true to the concept, but open to re-interpretation or alternate opinions, would be even more reasonable, giving people basically the class they want, but allowing anyone at the same table with it to rationalize away the objectionable bits. (Assuming only an honest objection to a few very specific things being done 'without magic' is the issue.)

Question: Is a Barbarian "Magical" or "nonmagical"?

See, Rage to me is magical; it does something above mortal ability. Lots of people can get mad, but none get mechanical bonuses for it. Rage taps into some form of magic; call it Primal Fury if you want. Its not dispelable, it doesn't go away in anti-magic, but its magical nonetheless, and if we were going for "nonmagical campaign", barbarian wouldn't make the cut.

Warlord should be the same way. They tap into something beyond mortal abilities. They don't cast spells, they don't learn magic, but they are magical in that they can do things far beyond what a normal soldier can do. I can accept that a warlord taps into some latent magic in the world to aid his words and give allies new vigor; I don't accept that he does it because "he's that charismatic".
 


A core issue with (warlord's) inspirational healing is the various ways people use hit points in game. Some use it as moral and endurance, and some use it as physical damage. Not to mention the plenty of people in between.

So why not let each table decide how to interpret the inspirational healing as well?

Something like....

"Inspiring Word: Some say the inspiration is similar to the bards magic, others believe that there is blood of the kings running through their veins, or the power of faith and devotion towards your comrades like a paladin, yet others simply see only hard work and practice at choosing the right words. Yet no one can deny that the words seem to resonate in whoever hears it, having an impact far beyond your average encouragement."

My butt would be entirely not hurt by this description. If this was the fluff wording of some official Inspiring Word in some official "Warlord" class, there'd be no objections from me on it.

Sounds very bardic, but as long as that class has spells, pretty sure that won't fit the model of a warlord; I'm cool with this going in a new class/subclass.

Remathilis said:
See, Rage to me is magical; it does something above mortal ability. Lots of people can get mad, but none get mechanical bonuses for it. Rage taps into some form of magic; call it Primal Fury if you want. Its not dispelable, it doesn't go away in anti-magic, but its magical nonetheless, and if we were going for "nonmagical campaign", barbarian wouldn't make the cut.

Warlord should be the same way. They tap into something beyond mortal abilities. They don't cast spells, they don't learn magic, but they are magical in that they can do things far beyond what a normal soldier can do. I can accept that a warlord taps into some latent magic in the world to aid his words and give allies new vigor; I don't accept that he does it because "he's that charismatic".

I keep going back to the idea that in 5e, lay on hands, and bardic inspiration, and shadow monks becoming invisible are all "non-magical." They're varying degrees of supernatural and superhuamn, but there's nothing inherently "this uses MAGIC(tm)" about any of these, and they function fine when spellcasters and the like are off-line from effects like Anitmagic Shield. Psionics looks like it's going to be in a similar niche.

The range of not-really-magic / "purely martial" / Charles Atlas Superpower in 5e is pretty big, and inspirational healing can comfortably cavort in that space, it just requires some carefully worded abilities. ;)
 
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1.) Should a warlord be able to restore hit points in combat?
Yes, unequivocally. Otherwise it is a strictly inferior support class, and non-viable. Insisting the Warlord not be able to restore hps in combat is identical to insisting no one ever be allowed to play one.
Sorry if that sounds strident or uncompromising, but suggesting the warlord be strictly inferior is very strident and uncompromising, and invites such a response. This should not even be a question. Asking it creates the appearance of bad faith. Besides, it's been asked and answered many times.
2.) Should a warlord be able to restore hit points using only his voice?
That's ambiguous. The Warlord inspires. That /could/ be a matter of verbal communication, or it could be a wordless shout, it could be a shinning example that allies need only /see/, it could even be an ally remembering something the warlord had previous said or done in a new light.
3.) Should a warlord be able to restore hit points using only his voice when the target is unconscious or "wounded"?
Yes, unequivocally. Otherwise it is a strictly inferior support class, and non-viable. Insisting the Warlord not be able to bring a downed ally back into the fight is identical to insisting no one ever be allowed to play one.
Sorry if that sounds strident or uncompromising, but suggesting the warlord be strictly inferior is very strident and uncompromising, and invites such a response. This should not even be a question. Asking it creates the appearance of bad faith. Besides, it's been asked and answered many times.
4.) Should a warlords ability to restore hit points be considered magical or non-magical?
It should be non-magical per the rules. It could, however, be 'considered' by individuals both in or out of character, to be otherwise. You can always write-off conclusive evidence if you have sufficient belief. An atheist PC could be convinced that Clerical spells are 'no different' from Wizard spells, and do not 'prove' the existence of deities. The Cleric class need not be undercut in any way to allow that.
There is a belief this doesn't gel with 5e's interpretation on hp and healing though
That 'belief' is proveably false. First of all, it's absurd on the face of it. 5e has no interpretation of hps and healing, it has mechanics. So it's nonsense. 5e has one side-bar that mentions one possible way of describing hp damage that is in no way incompatible with what the Warlord has always done. That's it.

Secondly, those mechanics do not imply anything that would prevent the Warlord from being a functional addition to them. Non-magical healing can already be up-from-0 (Death Saves, rest & time, healing) and can already be done in combat (Second Wind, healer feat). Hit points can be interpreted as almost wholly or only partially non-physical, but they cannot be interpreted as modeling serious all-meat injuries that must be totally healed or magically caused to vanish to restore a character to full hps - HD, overnight healing, second wind, and death saves all contradict such models.

but people disagree on which limit they wish to place. For some, they'd be fine with 1-3 if 4 is answered "magical". Others say if 1-2 is fine for non-magical, but 3 is magical. Others things 1 should be nonmagical, but 2-3 magical. Some thing the warlord shouldn't be magical at all, while others are fine with a little magic if it means getting more options. In the end, someone is going to lose.
No one has to lose. The Warlord could be introduced in a reasonable form, true to it's concept, and effective & balanced. Those who are already OK with hps & healing as-is in 5e would be able to use it unchanged, or with the caveat that some people choose to attribute some stuff to magic even though there's no mechanic to force that conclusion. Those who use models that make some aspects of the warlord impossible would already be choosing modules and banning classes or specific abilities to bring 5e in line with those models, and could do the same with the Warlord, either banning it outright or tweaking either function or explanation at the mechanical level.

Just because some people who would never use the class, or (in spite of constantly arguing against it) 'don't care' about it, have spurious objections to some aspects of the concept doesn't mean it shouldn't be allowed into the Core game. 5e already allows anyone that has a mechanical or conceptual problem with a class to deal with it: by simply not using the offending concept or mechanic, or by changing it as a DM. This would be no less true of the Warlord than it already is of every class.

Question: Is a Barbarian "Magical" or "nonmagical"?
Inclusive or? Yes.

The Berserker is not stated or implied to be anything magical or supernatural, while the Totem archetype calls upon spirits to perform magical effects.

See, Rage to me is magical
Nothing calls it out as magical, though. So it's fine to have a class presented as non-magical, that some folks might be more comfortable conceiving of as somehow magical, even though it doesn't cast spells or lose abilities inside an anti-magic shell. The Warlord doesn't need anything more than that. It doesn't need to be in-your-face, unequivocally, no-alternative-possible, non-supernatural-in-any-way (and, in 5e, /couldn't/ because of DM empowerment).

You need have no more issue with the Warlord than the Barbarian, in that case.


Warlord should be the same way. They tap into something beyond mortal abilities. They don't cast spells, they don't learn magic, but they are magical in that they can do things far beyond what a normal soldier can do.
Being able to do more than an ordinary person does not require magic. You're free to imagine it does, and attribute magical powers to people who exceed the norm - like Olympic Athletes, victorious warriors, rock stars, or whatever. It's not an unusual human compulsion, even IRL, where magic (we presume) doesn't exist, at all. In the context of a typical D&D world, attributing supernatural power to high level characters of the very few sub-classes that don't actually have them would be quite natural.
 
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That's helpful. Okay, I think I do understand one point of contention a little better. How can you inspire an unconscious person with your words and leadership, if it's a non-magical effect?

That said, in the end it doesn't really matter. People should create what they want to. I still fail to understand, from the 1000' view, why it matters whether or not it is magical, or non-magical. Especially because it seems like every ... single ... class ... in 5e is magical, or at least has "magic options."

The funny part is (And I am a HUGE warlord fan) I would totally be behind a warlord class that had a sub class like eldritch knight or arcane trickster... but I also want an inspireing and a tactical subclass
 

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