D&D 5E Open Interpretation Inspirational Healing Compromise.

[Dausuul]

My preference would be to make the warlord healing ability be one option among several. Then players who want healing-warlords can take that option, and DMs who hate healing-warlords can ban it while allowing the others, and everyone's happy (except when those two happen to be in the same gaming group).

I guess open-interpretation would work for me, but I don't think it touches the real issue, which is that warlords are serving as a proxy for refighting the Great Hit Point Wars, and the goal of the Great Hit Point Wars is to get the other side to admit they're wrong and you're right. Compromise is defeat. The only victory is total victory.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Heh. Professional athletes in D&D would be dang clerics given how often they credit God with their victories.

All the more proof that you don't need something to actually be magical, to believe something magical is going on.

The funny part is (And I am a HUGE warlord fan) I would totally be behind a warlord class that had a sub class like eldritch knight or arcane trickster... but I also want an inspireing and a tactical subclass

No overwhelming objection here. The spellcasting in both those cases is kept entirely within the sub-class, so you could still play a 'real' non-casting Warlord if there were an arcane-using sub-class.

Really, with so many magic-users implied by the 5e classes, it would make a lot of sense for there to be a Warlord sub-class that specializes in making optimal use of magical resources, including developing some himself.

Also, an Ardent as Warlord sub-class could be pretty cool /if/ the Ardent doesn't get it's own class or show up as a Mystic sub-class, anyway. Warlords inspire with word & deed, Ardents can project inspiration directly into your brain.

My preference would be to make the warlord healing ability be one option among several. Then players who want healing-warlords can take that option, and DMs who hate healing-warlords can ban it while allowing the others, and everyone's happy (except when those two happen to be in the same gaming group).

Inspiration could be a Warlord resource with several ways of using it (hp-restoration, temp-hps, bonus save, or damage bonus, say). Don't want a 'healing' warlord, don't use the first one, ever, just like if you didn't want a healing cleric you'd simply decline to ever prepare a spell that healed (they've been consolidated so it's not that even that hard anymore).

 

[Aldarc]

How about...

Words and Deeds
Just as bards use language to tap into the primal forces of creation, so do warlords. A warlord's words can restore vigor to a wounded solider, empower him to fight longer, harder, or better than he had before. This is not merely the skill of a gifted orator or the demands of a drill-sergeant; a warlord draws on something extra to lace his words and inspire his allies.

Likewise, a warlord has gifted insight beyond mundane battle tactics. He draws on an almost unnatural ability to predict the flow of battle, react to changes in an instant, and know exactly where to be to get the most advantage for his companions. This sixth-sense-like ability allows him to have allies move into position, call out openings even trained fighters may miss, and coordinate actions that can make even rag-tag bands work like well-oiled fighting units.

The wording here gives the warlord something "extra" he draws on. He doesn't necessarily know how he does it, but he is something stronger than a typical commander or soldier, and give a hint of mystical/magical without relying on outright magic or spells.

Of course, those who demand TOTAL NON-MAGIC are going to be disappointed, but I can't figure out a way to to make a total nonmagical warlord do much more than a battlemaster already is, so its the compromise for getting SuperAwesome warlord abilities....

I think it's close but it doesn't quite hit the middle ground well enough. I think that whole "just as bards" bit leans the warlord towards the supernatural and magical side. Maybe shift "something extra" to a wording that favors the "extraordinary." My mind is a little fried at the moment to think of an alternative descriptor. Mellored's wording in the opening post mirrors what I wrote in response to I'm a Banana in the defunct Warlord thread, so I lean more towards that sort of wording. But my brain is a bit fried at the moment, so I may attempt a go later.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Dausuul]

Great Hit Point Wars? Aren't Hit Points just the things that allow you to kill more orcs between rests?

I am so confused.

Oh, no. Hit points are (choose one):

• A purely narrative device for controlling when characters are in danger of death, modeling no specific trait in the game world.
• An abstracted way of modeling a character's physical state, such that any loss of hit points represents a wound, even if only a minor one.

It is VERY IMPORTANT that you make the correct choice, that everyone in the D&D community agrees that it's the correct choice, and that the rules explicitly identify it as the correct choice and support it with mechanics that can be interpreted in no other way. There is no possible middle ground or alternative.

 

[Zardnaar]

Great Hit Point Wars? Aren't Hit Points just the things that allow you to kill more orcs between rests?

I am so confused.

Background there was a massive war on the wotc forums 2-3 years ago over the warlord and healing. The designers chose a more traditional approach over 4E.

Pathfinder and OSR won the edition war. I'm not sure how many of the warlord fans have looked at the Noble class but if that class is not acceptable yo them I do not know what is.

I mean if you buy OGL products you have to put up with renamed things like tactical advantage so it seems the pro 4E side are unwilling to compromise at all when a clads exists that gives them everything they seem to be asking for and can be aquired for $3.

Thats why these threads are basically edition warring by wotc refugees who don't even play the game in most cases. A 5E wizard doesnt quite function the same as a AD&D one and no kne cares to much. Its that uncompromising position abd thread after thread of veiled edition warring that ENworld now has to look forward to and its a direct descendent of the 4E edition wars via the same people using the same tactics. Those being deny, provoke and thread spam.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Maybe shift "something extra" to a wording that favors the "extraordinary." My mind is a little fried at the moment to think of an alternative descriptor. Mellored's wording in the opening post mirrors what I wrote in response to I'm a Banana in the defunct Warlord thread, so I lean more towards that sort of wording. But my brain is a bit fried at the moment, so I may attempt a go later.

And put it in a side-bar.

'Some say...' is a great way of dropping alternate interpretations in without endorsing them. Something like:

"Sidebar: While warlords don't usually cast spells, and not all revere deities, some say that their remarkable abilities must indicate some greater, perhaps mystical or supernatural force behind their remarkable feats and many victories.
Many Warlords readily agree that there is a much greater force behind all their accomplishments: their allies."

Opens the door to the idea, ends with re-enforcing the class concept instead of undermining it.

 

[Lwaxy]

Folks, this thread is about to go the same direction as the other one that was just closed. If you find yourself in a circular argument with someone, just drop it. And, as it seems to need repeating, don't insult each other, don't get into edition wars and don't use loaded terms like "h4ter" or "4venger." There's been enough of that.

Consider this the only warning this thread is getting.

Apologies to everyone who is actually exchanging thoughts.

 

[Bawylie]

Background there was a massive war on the wotc forums 2-3 years ago over the warlord and healing. The designers chose a more traditional approach over 4E.

Pathfinder and OSR won the edition war. I'm not sure how many of the warlord fans have looked at the Noble class but if that class is not acceptable yo them I do not know what is.

I mean if you buy OGL products you have to put up with renamed things like tactical advantage so it seems the pro 4E side are unwilling to compromise at all when a clads exists that gives them everything they seem to be asking for and can be aquired for $3.

Thats why these threads are basically edition warring by wotc refugees who don't even play the game in most cases. A 5E wizard doesnt quite function the same as a AD&D one and no kne cares to much. Its that uncompromising position abd thread after thread of veiled edition warring that ENworld now has to look forward to and its a direct descendent of the 4E edition wars via the same people using the same tactics. Those being deny, provoke and thread spam.

Please, keep that broad brush in its holster. You're getting paint everywhere.

 

[Jester David]

The problem I have with "compromises" like this is that one side still gets 100% of what they want while the other side has to accommodate.
That's not a great example of compromise.

A compromise would be a warlord that doesn't have martial healing. Or doesn't have in-combat healing, but can heal between combat.

My personal preference - and an actual example of a compromise - came up in another thread where they suggested having warlords grant bonus hit dice that can be spent in place of regular HD. Which works nicely with the existing customization dials, as a game where hit points are more energy-based, HD can be spent by anyone in combat and the warlord just gives you more. But in a game where hit points are health, recover slowly, and require a healer's kit to use then the warlord is a combat medic that is skilled at triage.

Another compromise might be adding inspirational healing to the game by way of an optional rule. Like how marking was added and could be used by anyone. Anyone can make a Charisma check to let allies spend Hit Dice or regain hit points. After all, if its just saying the right words, why can't the bard or a sorcerer that specializes in Diplomacy also make an attempt?

It's way easier for you to say "Hey no warlocks" then me making the warlock class whole cloth... same with warlord

True, but the same could be said about a dozen other classes, from the jester to the alchemist to the dragon shaman. That doesn't mean they need to be in the game.
And if you don't want to make a warlord class whole cloth there are literally dozens already made and available online so you don't have to.