Open lock & Disable Device Nessecary?

[HRSegovia]

The_Orc_Within:

Thank you, Sir!

 

[Ahnehnois]

Even completely discounting magic, traps are not a certain thing. Most D&D games regularly involve combat, but traps are a far less certain proposition. Personally, in my game the PCs could easily get by without being able to deal with traps. My PCs have seen probably a single-digit number of traps in the last fifty sessions I've run, and very few of those really required disable device.

Opening locks should probably be a use of disable device and is made practically useless by the myriad of ways to open or bypass a door.

 

[Sorrowdusk]

The magic users of a party can replace most other classes by high level. A wizard can fight enemies (or summon things that can) just as, or more, effectively than the Fighter can. Likewise, they can open locks and bypass traps like the Rogue can.

The problem is, they can't do all of it at the same time. They can't hold off a group of semi-powerful enemies AND open a locked door AND avoid the trap on the door all at the same time. They could, with relative ease, hold off the semi-powerful enemies while a Rogue opens the lock and avoids the trap. Or, they could get through the door while the Fighter maintains a rearguard.

The game is about teamwork, not about making your fellow party members redundant.

What would be interesting is trying to run an ALL caster group.

It is not common in our games, and as mentioned magic has a way of making it unnecessary.

As a DM I tend to look at what skills a PC has and try to tailor something specific with that skill.

Exactly, if there IS a rogue, there SHOULD be traps to disarm and locks to pick. A friend of mine says he always tries to make sure that during an adventure, there's something each player can do or shine at.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EigenPlot

 

[Dandu]

What would be interesting is trying to run an ALL caster group.

Wizard, Cleric, Druid, and Beguiler will cover every role necessary.

 

[Axel]

Wizard, Cleric, Druid, and Beguiler will cover every role necessary.

No doubt. Trying to play a single combat round would also take half an hour, and your party would be utterly defeated by an anti-magic field. It also wouldn't be as interesting as trying to have a party of 4 or 5 be all arcane casters of various flavours.

Open Lock could easily enough be defined as a component of Disable Device (you are really disabling a device...called a lock). I imagine they are related "finesse" type skills.

 

[AuraSeer]

It's amazing what you can do with an unseen servant dragging a bag of sand to "disarm" or locate traps.

Oh yeah! I forgot to mention my very favorite non-rogue way to deal with traps.

Play a Warlock and take the invocation the dead walk. It works like animate dead but is usable at will, for free, unlimited times perday. As long as there's a corpse nearby, you can make it into a remote-control skeleton to open chests and trigger pressure plates while you stand far out of danger.

Sure the skeleton is only temporary, but who cares? It's only going to be walked into traps anyway.

 

[Dandu]

No doubt. Trying to play a single combat round would also take half an hour

Only if you don't know what you're doing.

and your party would be utterly defeated by an anti-magic field.

Oh AMF with thy 10 ft radius around the caster and duration of tens of minutes.
How do I circumvent thee? Let me count the ways
Walls of Force and Walls of Stone
Prismatic barriers in all their glory
Orbs of Acid and Unicorn Arrows
Archery from afar, death by magically shrunk boulders dropped from above
By a flying enemy whom a man in an AMF cannot reach because AMF removes magical flight so unless he has wings he is really just a target for aerial bombing or, if in a dungeon, a prime candidate for being sealed off via a Wall spell.

 

[GreyLord]

Only if you don't know what you're doing.

Oh AMF with thy 10 ft radius around the caster and duration of tens of minutes.
How do I circumvent thee? Let me count the ways
Walls of Force and Walls of Stone
Prismatic barriers in all their glory
Orbs of Acid and Unicorn Arrows
Archery from afar, death by magically shrunk boulders dropped from above
By a flying enemy whom a man in an AMF cannot reach because AMF removes magical flight so unless he has wings he is really just a target for aerial bombing or, if in a dungeon, a prime candidate for being sealed off via a Wall spell.

I think you are taking for granted that there's a caster casting the AMF...

Either that or I'm a much more devious DM than I thought. I think I could probably kill most caster's of normal PC level if the entire party was relying heavily on Magic in...oh...about one round.

At least a 50/50 chance at least, depending on initiative...no NPC's needed...with them involved it becomes a certainty.

It seems all the CoDzilla scenarios are based upon non-devious DM's...and/or...DM's playing by the rules AS EXPECTED (because players sometimes forget DM's can twist the rules just like they do)...OR if the players are REALLY abusing the books...EXPECT DM'S to miss the biggest rule of them all (because players forget that ever devious...rule 0 by which DM's can help non-uber PC's win the day...or munchkins bite the dust).



PS: On the otherhand, if a group of players wanted to play an entire party of spellcasters...I'm actually not that mean...I'd probably tailor a game where they can play...all spellcasters...even if they are all the SAME type of spellcaster. I find it's actually nicer to play along with the players instead of against...tends to mean you have players to play with. Of course I still reserve the right to smack down a munchkin...but that's normally right before we kick them out of the playing group anyways for not playing nice with everyone else...so never really a problem.

Which means in truth...I don't think I really ever run into the problem of having to be evil and do uncouth things to players...it's much easier to let them do as they want and play the game as they desire. Of course I'm still devious...but that's only plot devices to keep them intrigued.

In that light...spellcasters can cover any rogue situation as they desire with the right party and spells. Far be it from me to deny player's their fun...or a DM mine if I'm the player.

At least when I DM. Other's can DM as they desire.

 

[Dandu]

I think you are taking for granted that there's a caster casting the AMF...

You're right. It could be a rogue or bard UMDing it... or maybe even a monk! Those are really fearsome in AMFs.

Either that or I'm a much more devious DM than I thought. I think I could probably kill most caster's of normal PC level if the entire party was relying heavily on Magic in...oh...about one round.

At least a 50/50 chance at least, depending on initiative...no NPC's needed...with them involved it becomes a certainty.

No great challenge if you have total control over the situation.

It seems all the CoDzilla scenarios are based upon non-devious DM's...and/or...DM's playing by the rules AS EXPECTED (because players sometimes forget DM's can twist the rules just like they do)

Wait... how is playing a druid or cleric as intended (and it's pretty clear that they were intended to go into melee, what with Wildshape and Divine Power) and having them in the role of melee twisting the rules? Or using the Wall of Force spell to put a barrier between a spellcaster and an opponent with AMF for that matter, as it is one of the few spells specifically called out as being unsuppressed by an AMF?

...OR if the players are REALLY abusing the books...EXPECT DM'S to miss the biggest rule of them all (because players forget that ever devious...rule 0 by which DM's can help non-uber PC's win the day...or munchkins bite the dust).

This part of your post is totally irrelevant to the conversation that was taking place, which was about the ability of an all caster party to function when confronted with AMFs.

 

[Wyvernhand]

If you have to resort to AMF fiat every encounter just to challenge your PCs, you are probably don't something else wrong as a DM. Who wants to have a bunch of neato abilities, only to have to sit out the encounter with a dunce cap because the DM arbitrarily decided that he's not allowed to participate? Also, don't forget that melee classes are MORE gear dependant, requiring heavy amounts of +stats and +hit gear to be able to reliably deal with CR appropriate encounters, especially when circumstances are stacked against them.

Sure, as an occasional trick, the dead magic room is kinda neat, but if you are pulling it out EVERY encounter just to maintain balance, you are gonna find your table unnaturally empty after a while. There are other solutions.