Pathfinder 1E Opinions on Pathfinder

[shadow]

Since I may eventually be starting a new game, I'm looking at possible ways to go. The system that everyone seems to be talking about is Paizo's Pathfinder. It seems that more and more publishers are moving away from OGL and getting on the Pathfinder bandwagon.

Now that Oathbound will be rereleased using the Pathfinder rules, I'm considering giving Pathfinder another look.
I downloaded a copy of Pathfinder when it was a free Beta PDF. Frankly, I was not at all impressed with the way Pathfinder was going in the Beta stage. It seemed like another generic spin on d20 rules that attempted to "compensate" for some of the perceived deficiencies of 3.5 by giving thing an overpowered boost.

Although I want to give the system another look, I'm a little wary of the $40 price tag. Is Pathfinder worth it? How different is the actual release from the Beta stage? Are there any reasons that you prefer Pathfinder to 3/3.5 or any of the other various incarnations of d20?

 

[Hunter In Darkness]

Well I play and really like the system. They made many changes, big and small. But you can can check it out for free Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document


It is the SRD for the system the whole book is there all 568 pages except the gods which are closed content. The beastry is on that site as well

 

[billd91]

Now that Oathbound will be rereleased using the Pathfinder rules, I'm considering giving Pathfinder another look.
I downloaded a copy of Pathfinder when it was a free Beta PDF. Frankly, I was not at all impressed with the way Pathfinder was going in the Beta stage. It seemed like another generic spin on d20 rules that attempted to "compensate" for some of the perceived deficiencies of 3.5 by giving thing an overpowered boost.

Keep in mind that one of the reasons Paizo is doing Pathfinder is to keep a version of d20 rules available and in print to support their preferences in adventure writing. So if it feels a bit generic, there's a reason for it.

The rules do go after certain perceived deficiencies, but I wouldn't say it's by giving them an overpowered boost. In some cases it's a well-deserved nerf like with wildshaping and polymorphing. In others, it's a question of adding class abilities to improve the attractiveness of staying in a single class rather than cherry-picking class dips and jumping to a powerful prestige class. And in still others, it's an attempt to streamline game mechanics like skill development and combat maneuvers (like grapple).

If you're interested in the PDF version, it sells a lot cheaper than the print version.

 

[Perram]

I would give Pathfinder a serious look, if you enjoyed the 3.5 era. You don't need to buy the print version of the core rules to do this, either, as there are two easy ways to check the game out first:

• The Pathfinder Reference Document available here on Paizo's site and also available at d20pfsrd. This is similar to the SRD for 3.5, but even more complete. It lacks the art of the book, but is a good way to just check it out, and an EXCELLENT resource when preparing your games as a GM.
• You can also order the PDF of the main rule book (which includes the errata and bookmarks and other neat features, as well as all the excellent art) for only $10 from Paizo's site.

But there are some things to keep in mind about Pathfinder:

• Pathfinder is an OGL product. Because of its success, licensing, and support, a lot of 3rd parties are supporting it.
• One of its main purposes is to continue the style of gaming of 3.5, and while it has several great improvements on those rules, it isn't trying to reinvent the wheel. Maintaining Backwards Compatibility with 3.5 was a chief design goal of the product.
• Some of the classes did indeed receive a power boost, and every class got changed a bit. The races were changed as well. This was mainly so that it would be more balanced with the later classes power levels in 3.5 which had some power creep.

Why I like it:

• While a lot of the changes were small changes, they really went a long way in letting you customize your character without needing to multi-class or go into prestige classes. A good example of this is the Sorcerer's bloodlines, the Thief abilities, Wizard specialist powers, and the Barbarian's new Rage Powers. Going 20 straight levels in a base class is now a very attractive option.
• The CMB/CMD mechanic. Combat Maneuvers is a brilliant idea that both makes some of the common optional actions in combat A LOT easier (Disarm, Grapple, Fient, etc) as well as making it really easy to adjudicate stunts in combat like dropping a chandelier on the guards or trying to swing on a rope and knock an ogre into a lake.
• Simplifying the Skill System makes life easier on both the players (especially those who multi-class) and the GM (who has to make a bunch of NPCs.)
• A lot of the more obvious balance and rules issues with 3.5 were corrected in PF. It isn't a perfect product, by any means, but in my opinion it is a more polished product than just using 3.5 on its own.
• The new rules for the encounter budget and XP make building encounters really easy, and removing a lot of the more fiddly work for the GM. Also, the rules for building NPCs and Monsters have received a lot of work that produce more balanced an better, in my opinion, results.
• While this isn't really a rules issue, the book is beautiful and excellently organized. This is ESPECIALLY true for the Bestiary.
• Paizo's support products are even better than just the rules system on its own. The value of Pathfinder should also include Paizo's other Pathfinder products which are some of the best and most polished Adventures / Campaign Setting pieces being produced right now. I would take a good look at this material even if you may not use them with the Pathfinder rules. People have been converting their world and adventures over to several other systems just due to their excellent quality.
• A personal favorite of mine: Halflings. A more traditional, yet fresh, approach to my favorite race.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

"Overpowered" is a relative term. If all classes get bumped (or nerfed) to a "fair" power level, it doesn't matter if they are stronger or weaker than they were in 3.x.

I think if you feel that your players are constantly looking for playing new, odd-ball classes and prestige classes, if you feel that save or die effects or grappling ruins your fun way too often,if you feel that no one has "interesting" magicalal items and only "optimzied" magical items these days, I think Pathfinder is a great choice.

It refreshes the game, by changing every class enough to feel them new and exciting. It fixes a lot of spells and mechanical aspects like the aforementioned ones.

If you want an entirely new system, with fundamental changes to avoid certain flaws and kinks, Pathfinder will probably not be enough.

The difference between Beta and final release seemed still pretty substantial to me (at least on the scale of differences between systems). The Beta still had a lot of concepts that didn't work out so well, and I would say the final result improves a lot on that. (Of course, all in the context that it's an elaborate "tweak", not a new core rule system).

 

[Gort]

"Overpowered" is a relative term. If all classes get bumped (or nerfed) to a "fair" power level, it doesn't matter if they are stronger or weaker than they were in 3.x.

Personally, I don't think Pathfinder goes far enough to balance casters and non-casters. Fighters get a few extras thrown their way, but comparing their DR 10/- to something like the benefits a high level shapechanging spell will give you is still a rather bad joke.

Still, I hope it does well and tons of people buy it, since a friend of mine gets paid to work on some stuff related to it.

 

[Voadam]

How different is the actual release from the Beta stage? Are there any reasons that you prefer Pathfinder to 3/3.5 or any of the other various incarnations of d20?

Mostly the same from Beta, a few class changes and spell changes and such but mostly the same. Biggest change IMO is dropping the different bonus 1st level hp schemes from beta. Favored class is also no longer tethered to race.

I like PF's skill system far more than 3.5. It is mechanically elegant and allows cross-class competency much more as well as letting rangers/rogues/bards be better skill guys than in 3.5 due to some of their class skills being consolidated.

I like PF changes to dispel magic. Making it knock out only one effect is a huge recalculation reduction so the spell is not such a table speed bump during combat.

I like save or die turning to save or damage and save or suck mostly changing to hold person style save each round.

I disliked the ambiguous writing of 3e grapple so CMB is a welcome change for me.

I like at will cantrips, particularly so wizards use little magical rays instead of crossbows.

I like rogue sneak attack working all the time, not being inapplicable to half the commonly found opponents (and in some modules all the opponents).

I like having class powers for every level.

I like the increased number of feats (every two levels instead of three).

I like the chart for monster stat ranges by CR, a good guideline for evaluating monsters or making new ones.

 

[Lidgar]

Our group has now been playing PF since October - about 4 sessions. It is interesting how different it plays from 3.5, yet the same. In general, the changes are all positive so far. Many of the positives have already been listed here. Many feats have been tweaked so that they now function differently, but in a good way - cleave and toughness are great examples. I think it should be noted that when comparing fighters to spellcasters, not only do they now gain DR at higher levels, these changes to combat oriented feats make them a little more on par with the spell casters. For example, a fighter with great cleave can in some ways function like an AoE spell - or at least one with a 5' radius.

 

[Dice4Hire]

Here is a recent thread on just this topic
http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/270613-finally-looked-pathfinder-rules.html

And...

There is a pathfinder sub-forum.

 

[Derulbaskul]

(snip some good stuff) Paizo's support products are even better than just the rules system on its own. The value of Pathfinder should also include Paizo's other Pathfinder products which are some of the best and most polished Adventures / Campaign Setting pieces being produced right now. I would take a good look at this material even if you may not use them with the Pathfinder rules. People have been converting their world and adventures over to several other systems just due to their excellent quality. (snip)

I'm a committed 4E DM and yet the quality of Paizo's products, which I continue to buy, caused me to buy Pathfinder and, I know in my gut, I'll be running it before long even though I really like 4E.

All that rules and edition war nonsense aside, Paizo does support their game with well-written adventures, adventure paths that actually have a coherent story and a great campaign world which is well-supported officially by products and unofficially by fans (check out the wiki) and, IMO, WotC hasn't done those things well so far (check that- I liked both the 4E versions of FR and Eberron but I am making a point about the lack of supporting product).

If Paizo ever works out how to legally produce a character builder and monster builder I think I would change in a flash!