[OPINIONS QUERY] Paladin-Alignment Situation!!

[Snoweel]

Re: Paladin and Dwarf Claimants

If the paladin has an order from his god to gather the arms of Haran and use them to fight evil, I don't think any dwarf in the world should be able to budge him on the subject. It is not good to come between a paladin and their god.
The "legality" of the situation is really pretty moot: the closest equivalent in modern Western Law is probably salvage rights, which generally translate to "Finders keepers, losers weepers + a cut for the government."

There may be a discussion as to whether or not this is the most lawful or most good action to take, but it's important to note paladins are not required to take the optimal lawful good action: they may not be chaotic or evil, but gods generally don't expect paladins to be perfect in an imperfect world.

Great post, ajanders.

Too many people (especially on these boards) think Paladins need to be Mr Goodytwoshoes.

They have d10 for hit dice, +1/level BAB and Heavy Armour Proficiency. Paladins are supposed to kick ass, not agonise over moral dilemmas.

 

[mythago]

Too many people (especially on these boards) think Paladins need to be Mr Goodytwoshoes.

It's that pesky LG alignment requirement! If only the writers of the PHB would see the light: less code of honor, more butt-kicking.

 

[Umbran]

Likewise, the Paladin has been told to gather these artifacts by a Lawful Good god.

Incorrect. Netwolf already clarified this. There were no orders from The Man. A cleric suggested it might be a good idea. That's no Holy Mandate.

In terms of the paladin's priorities, then, acquiring these things for himself is thus not terribly high. Sure, they'd be helpful, but the strong arm of an agreeable, combat-able dwarf would also be helpful.

 

[Snoweel]

It's that pesky LG alignment requirement! If only the writers of the PHB would see the light: less code of honor, more butt-kicking.

So Lawful Good = Goodytwoshoes Pussy?

Maybe they should call it GP.

I'm pretty sure the Paladin's code doesn't require the Paladin to constantly put up with other peoples' sh_t.

If somebody gets in the way of the Paladin's goals (which must be fine or he would have lost his Paladinhood), then the Paladin should warn that action will be taken if the "obstacle" doesn't remove itself.

Further obstinance should be dealt with as efficiently as possible.

 

[rigur]

Re: Re: Paladin and Dwarf Claimants

They have d10 for hit dice, +1/level BAB and Heavy Armour Proficiency. Paladins are supposed to kick ass, not agonise over moral dilemmas.

Why not both, see Sepulchrave II's Story Hour The Rape of Morne both buttkicking and moral dilemmas.

 

[sword-dancer]

Meta-Game Concerns: The DM *seems* to have sided with the paladin. The player running the paladin was unsure of his legal right to the shield and asked the DM several questions about it... I would think a paladin would inherently know that his claim was weaker and his sense of right would prompt him to return property that is not his.

What is your take on this predicament?

Depending on the questions, I couldn`t see anything wrong with a player who ask s his GM for Infos his PC should have.


The dwarv has no legal right on the Arms of Haran, as long as the arms weren`t given to Haran as a loan, or Haran had stolen it. He had therefore dihonored his Clan as a thief, a betrayer and a liar because he would have tried to betray the agreements of his forebears.

The Pally has the right of usership, he owns the spurs of Haran, and a cleric of his ´faith nay his god had told him To defeat an evil tyrann he need the arms of Haran.
Okay the pally hadn`t get a direct order from his god, sealed, signed in threefold Copies.
But a paladin fights evil wherever whenever possible, to defend the innocent, helpless...

 

[Clay_More]

Well, I would though believe the dwarf to have a problem. If a dwarves in your campaign are as honor-bound as those I've seen in others, he owes the paladin his life. No matter what, that should perhaps urge him to give up the item momentarily, but not necesarily permanently

 

[Umbran]

Re: Re: [OPINIONS QUERY] Paladin-Alignment Situation!!

The Pally has the right of usership, he owns the spurs of Haran, and a cleric of his ´faith nay his god had told him To defeat an evil tyrann he need the arms of Haran.
Okay the pally hadn`t get a direct order from his god, sealed, signed in threefold Copies.
But a paladin fights evil wherever whenever possible, to defend the innocent, helpless...

last things first - the paladin is supposed to fight evil whenever possible, but there's no guarantee. Plus, maybe the dwarf fully intends to fight evil wherever possible (he is NG, after all), thus making them equal on that score.

Being the current posessor of the spurs, to my mind, has no relevance whatsoever. Let's say the Spurs were Issue #1 of a comic book limited series, and the Shield were Issue #2. The mere fact that he owns issue #1 gives the paladin no more right of ownership to issue #2 than anyone else. It's like saying, "I'm the only one here who owns a wineskin! Therefore, any expensive wine glasses we find automatically belong to me!" Thematic similarity of other items has nothing to do with right of ownership.

 

[Kyramus]

I really don't know why you guys are fighting over a shield for.

The cleric stated (according to the very first entry) that the paladin needs to find the arms of haran then challenge the count.

NO WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT THE PALADIN HAS TO USE IT.

Give the shield to the dwarf and bring the whole party to challenge the count.

End of story. End of conflict. Next quest please.

edit: changed diety to cleric