Opposed-alignment cleric scrolls

[werk]

Just because the God doesn't notice, doesn't mean the other clergy can't find out. In that case, excommunication might be the least of the offending cleric's worries.

Ken

So a LG cleric of Dol Arrah can blaspheme her head off as long as no other church members notice?

It just seems odd to me to put rules into it, clerics and alignment spells, then wipe those rules aside in the setting designed to showcase the new ruleset.

 

[KarinsDad]

It just seems odd to me to put rules into it, clerics and alignment spells, then wipe those rules aside in the setting designed to showcase the new ruleset.

Precisely.

But, what do you expect from a steampunk setting that has little connection to the rules except that it mechanically uses them?

Once you have a society that loses its strong connections to deities (and vice versa) and relies on magic as everyday conveniences and has modern-like banking / transportation / communication type systems, you no longer have a magic is mysterious fantasy culture, you have a closer to real world familiar technology fantasy culture (based on magic). Game societal elements become more mundane / familiar and less mysterious.

 

[werk]

I was kinda hoping for constructive comments.

 

[Bad Paper]

I don't see any kind of problem, even a flavor one, with a cleric of Hextor desperately using a found scroll of dispel law to protect himself from that damn paladin of Heironius who's charging at him.

 

[pawsplay]

If using a scroll doesn't count as "casting" a spell for purposes of qualifying for a PrC, then surely it is not casting it for some other purpose, either.

 

[Vegepygmy]

So, for those that would allow the cleric usage, but that said usage would breach his clerical code...what about settings like Eberron? Where the gods are removed and will continue to grant spells regardless of the cleric's actions, including alignment change and opposition.

I don't understand the question. In Eberron, clerics can cast spells of any alignment descriptor, and can grossly violate their codes of conduct with no divine repercussions...so obviously, in those kinds of settings, clerics can just use the scroll/wand/whatever and not worry about it.

 

[Haffrung Helleyes]

Eberron aside, in my campaign I would let a cleric cast a spell from an opposed alignment from a scroll. My reasoning would be that normally, clerics are prohibited from casting spells vs. their alignment because their faith and compatible alignment are required to receive the spell from their deity. On a scroll, the spell doesn't even necessarily come from your deity.

Ken

 

[shilsen]

Precisely.

But, what do you expect from a steampunk setting that has little connection to the rules except that it mechanically uses them?

Once you have a society that loses its strong connections to deities (and vice versa) and relies on magic as everyday conveniences and has modern-like banking / transportation / communication type systems, you no longer have a magic is mysterious fantasy culture, you have a closer to real world familiar technology fantasy culture (based on magic). Game societal elements become more mundane / familiar and less mysterious.

Yeah. Ain't it cool?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Yeah. Ain't it cool?

Shilsen wins.

 

[Dross]

Err, why?

Clerics should follow the tenets of their deity's faith unquestioningly. If you were a deity, would you give spell casting ability to just anyone who said he worshipped you, or would you only give it to someone who thought in a similar vein to you and demonstrated that even in emergency situations, that creature still thought like you do.

As mentioned in a previous example, a LE cleric using a Protection from Law item against a paladin may get away with only requiring some atonement in my game, or they may not, it depends.
Sometimes the choice is to use the item in line with their faith's tenents (see below) or not use the item and go against their faith's tenants. Or what are you willing to sacrifice to follow your faith? You may not whish to force that choice on a player, some might.

Deities are not too concerned with how or if their worshippers die. They are concerned with how they live.

No one is infallable, people may still want to live, some may think "It's REALLY REALLY REALLY important that I live to do this ultra-important world affecting thing" and thus use the item.

Even the thought of touching an opposed alignment item should automatically be anathama to most Clerics. And, some high percentage of them should be more interested in destroying it than using it. It is the tool of an oppossing deity.

The thought of using it just does not make sense.

I can think of one example strait away. A cleric of Pelor using an item of Vecna that commands an Undead army to stop the undead invasion. In my view a cleric of Pelor would (and should) even though the Pelorian needs to touch and use an item that is "anathama" to them (and THEN destroy said item). Atonement method would be judged on the situation and reasons.

Extreme, yes, but that is what the situation needs to be. Simply using something to help remove a couple of mooks that can easily be defeated anyway is not a good reason and will be appropriately punished. How would you handle the above situation KD, or would you not place a player in that situation?