Optimization and optimizers...

[bloodtide]

So unless you have some reason to believe the majority of this thread are all lying to you and/or confused, perhaps you should reassess here.

There are big problems with this....not the least of that is Peer Pressure and Conformity. "Everyone" quite often says the same things as they want to fit it: it is human nature, It does not make "everyone" right, ever.

The Majority is not always right....

 

[Greg K]

Min-Maxers will try to get the highest bonus and leave the biggest weaknesses wide open. Oftentimes that is less than optimal. These builds don’t score high on my optimizer scale…

That is not a good min-maxer. The term min-maxer originates from maximizing strengths and minimizing weaknesses.

 

[Seramus]

If it's intentional, yeah, it's a jerk thing. It's not always intentional--at least, I've seen instances that I didn't think were.

I've absolutely stepped on toes that were not even in my niche. It wasn't intended in the slightest. Sometimes I've openly apologized, but more often I just silently note it and never try to do it again - always letting Jane take the spotlight on those times, or sometimes being the "Helper" that is clearly subordinate in the narrative.

I'm personally really relaxed about people stepping on my niche, as long as you're not an exact copy of my character. Want to be fireball buddies? Sure, we'll rain down fire together! On the flip side, I get antsy about being specifically countered in my niche - like someone joining the game with an undead hating paladin, knowing full well that I was already playing a necromancer.

 

[Thomas Shey]

There are big problems with this....not the least of that is Peer Pressure and Conformity. "Everyone" quite often says the same things as they want to fit it: it is human nature, It does not make "everyone" right, ever.

The Majority is not always right....

And that's an excuse often pulled out by someone who wants to play the Brave lone Truthteller.

If you think people on this board hesitate to tell others on it they're wrong all the time, I don't know what board you've been reading.

 

[prabe]

I've absolutely stepped on toes that were not even in my niche. It wasn't intended in the slightest. Sometimes I've openly apologized, but more often I just silently note it and never try to do it again - always letting Jane take the spotlight on those times, or sometimes being the "Helper" that is clearly subordinate in the narrative.

I'm personally really relaxed about people stepping on my niche, as long as you're not an exact copy of my character. Want to be fireball buddies? Sure, we'll rain down fire together! On the flip side, I get antsy about being specifically countered in my niche - like someone joining the game with an undead hating paladin, knowing full well that I was already playing a necromancer.

Yeah. Catching yourself out in behavior you strongly dislike in others is ... usually not a fun time. I mostly share your feelings about people jumping into my niche, though I can get a bit bothered if someone's doing it in addition to some other niche they say is their primary. Having someone bting in a character that negates another PC just sounds like a crap player, regardless of how hard they're optimizing.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Yeah. Catching yourself out in behavior you strongly dislike in others is ... usually not a fun time. I mostly share your feelings about people jumping into my niche, though I can get a bit bothered if someone's doing it in addition to some other niche they say is their primary. Having someone being in a character that negates another PC just sounds like a crap player, regardless of how hard they're optimizing.

The real solution is...or would be?...game design such that two characters in one niche makes both more effective, and also fun to play, instead of one negating the other.

 

[Thomas Shey]

The real solution is...or would be?...game design such that two characters in one niche makes both more effective, and also fun to play, instead of one negating the other.

The first half of that's easy to do, but the second not so much, especially given how schematic a lot of non-combat mechanics in a lot of games tend to be.

 

[prabe]

The real solution is...or would be?...game design such that two characters in one niche makes both more effective, and also fun to play, instead of one negating the other.

Or just have a better sense of what the other players around the table are making. Either would be a real solution, I think, though I don't think they're so mutually exclusive as you seem to.