Draw Steel General Thread [+]


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I talked to my group the other night and I’m going to be running Delian Tomb soon. We’re currently working on Kingmaker (but getting close to the end, we’re around level 16 now). We do need to wait for some improvements in the Foundry module but I’m looking forward to it.
how is the Foundry system? I've lost interest in waiting for the dmhub one....
 


how is the Foundry system? I've lost interest in waiting for the dmhub one....
From what I’ve seen the next version is .80, so still not the full release. Looking at the Discord it seems like a lot of systems are in place but they were waiting for the full release with the updated license to begin data entry for the compendium.
 
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Reading the rules and the Auteur is seeing the game as a tale being told later on in a tavern, so they can sort of break the fourth wall. Love this, although I can see others would hate it. I would play this character in a second!
 

Reading the rules and the Auteur is seeing the game as a tale being told later on in a tavern, so they can sort of break the fourth wall. Love this, although I can see others would hate it. I would play this character in a second!
Oh, i think I saw a sentence about a tavern tale, but didn't latch on to it. But that could indeed put the entire game in a new perspective, if you decide to think of it as a multiplayer adventure of Munchausen :D Complete over the top descriptions of ability effects and shrugging off even the most brutal attacks ("I must admit that after that one I felt a bit winded") suddently can make perfect sense!
 


There was a bit of discussion & high level generalities about the rules for social/"negotiation" stuff earlier that skirted around getting too deep in specifics earlier in this (and the earlier) thread so I wanted to share this since I came across an SRD kinda equivalent that has them :D

WHEN TO NEGOTIATE​

In order for a negotiation to occur, an NPC must have an interest in negotiating with the heroes—but must also have a reason to not simply jump on board with whatever the heroes propose. Negotiations happen only when an NPC has that internal tension between interest and reluctance. For example, if the characters ask a king to send his army into a neighboring kingdom to battle a demon incursion, the king needs to be conflicted. He wants to stop the incursion, but he doesn’t want to risk the lives of his soldiers defending a foreign nation while leaving their own people unprotected. If the heroes want the help of the king’s army, they need to negotiate.

Heroes aren’t expected to use the negotiation rules every time one character tries to convince an NPC to see things their way. For instance, if a hero wants information about a cult leader from a captured cultist, a single Presence test using the Lie skill or a Might test using Intimidate is likely all that’s needed. A character who wants to flirt with the local alchemist to obtain a free Healing Potion likely just needs to make a Presence test using the Flirt skill.

By contrast, negotiations typically involve all the heroes interacting with one or more important named NPCs who can provide information, items, or services that dramatically change the course of an adventure. Often, this involves the heroes seeking an item of great power, a retainer or companion, the services of an influential organization or nation, or a plot-twist-worthy piece of information. Convincing a lich to lend the party the legendary Codex Mortis, trying to convince a dragon to halt an attack on a wizard’s tower, or talking the leaders of an enemy army into standing down means that a negotiation is in order.

To negotiate successfully, the heroes must make persuasive arguments to convince NPCs to do what they want. “Do it or we kill you” is a threat that might well accompany a single Might test using the Intimidate skill, but it’s not a negotiating tactic.

LIMITS OF NEGOTIATION​

Some players might instinctively feel that the negotiation rules should give them something akin to mind-control superpowers. They’re not used to imagining NPCs complexly, and might attempt to negotiate in situations where negotiation is either completely unreasonable or literally impossible. No matter how persuasive or well spoken a hero is, there’s no argument to be made that might convince the vile Lord Syuul to give up his pursuit of evil and become a gardener. A negotiation typically can’t convince a queen to hand over her crown to the heroes and name them the new rulers of the land, or inspire a dragon to fork over every piece of treasure in their hoard.

Negotiations only work when the heroes ask for something from an NPC that the NPC is willing to seriously consider giving them.

Negotiation is not a process that changes an NPC’s character. Rather, the heroes are trying to make an NPC understand how behaving differently would be in character. You might well be able to get the hitherto loyal lieutenant of an evil boss to reconsider the error of their ways. That’s a classic dramatic trope. But even then, you’re not changing their character—you’re convincing them that their current evil ways are out of character. “Is this who you are? Is this how you want to be remembered?!”

If some players want to use the negotiation system as a means to an end by having their characters say, “Just do what we tell you, or else!,” you can remind them that that’s not how most people, including NPCs, work. Any heroes who open with that attitude are likely to lose the negotiation before it begins.

THE THREAT OF VIOLENCE​

In the real world, negotiations rarely come with a threat of immediate violence. Ambassadors don’t usually get into fistfights. But this is a heroic fantasy RPG, featuring heroes who are armed to the teeth and able to alter reality with their minds. The threat of violence is already implied. Everyone involved knows that the characters could draw steel at any moment.

The Director typically assumes that the underlying potential for events to turn violent is already factored into every negotiation. However, if the heroes decide to bring that threat to the forefront, then they’ve exited the realm of negotiation and have entered into a different type of relationship—and it’s probably time to determine initiative.

Negotiation is about persuading someone to help you willingly because you’ve convinced them that meeting your objectives is a good idea. Working with you is wise or logical, or might make them look good. A hero can absolutely threaten someone with violence and force them to do what they want, but this is an incredibly temporary state. A threatened NPC isn’t willingly doing what they’ve been asked. They’re doing it on threat of violence, and will comply only while that threat is evident—after which, they’ll likely go back to their previous behavior as soon as they think they can get away with it.

NEWGOTIATION​

If you’ve never played a game with a dedicated negotiation system like this, you might need to run it once or twice before you master it, similar to learning any new subsystem in an RPG. The new rules you’ll learn are all dedicated to facilitating roleplaying by allowing the heroes to beseech an NPC for aid, and only involve rolling dice when the heroes don’t directly appeal to that NPC’s motivations.

NEGOTIATION STATS​

During negotiation, the Director assigns NPCs four temporary statistics—interest, patience, motivations, and pitfalls. The heroes can strike a favorable deal if they maximize an NPC’s interest by making arguments that invoke the NPC’s motivations and avoid their pitfalls—but they have to do all that before the NPC’s patience wears out.

INTEREST​

An NPC’s interest represents how eager they are to make a deal with the heroes. Interest is graded on a scale of 0 (no interest) to 5 (the most possible interest). When a negotiation begins, an NPC’s interest is between 1 and 4. If the NPC’s interest goes to 5, they make a final offer and the negotiation ends (see Keep Going or Stop, below). If the NPC’s interest drops to 0, they end a negotiation without offering the heroes any deal.

Interest increases and decreases during the negotiation based on the arguments the heroes make.

PATIENCE​

An NPC’s patience represents how much time and effort they’re willing to devote to a negotiation. Patience is graded on a scale of 0 to 5, with each NPC starting a negotiation with their patience higher than 0. If an NPC’s patience reaches 0, the NPC makes a final offer and negotiation ends (see Keep Going or Stop).

Patience can decrease each time the heroes make an argument during a negotiation.

LANGUAGE AND PATIENCE​

If at least one hero negotiating with an NPC speaks the NPC’s native language (not including Caelian), then the NPC’s patience increases by 1 at the start of the negotiation (to a maximum of 5). If three or more heroes negotiating with an NPC speak the NPC’s native language, the NPC’s patience increases by 2 (to a maximum of 5).

FOR THE DIRECTOR: SHARING INTEREST AND PATIENCE​

It’s up to you as the Director to decide whether to share an NPC’s interest or patience during a negotiation. Sometimes sharing this information can make an encounter more dramatic, with the players watching their progress rise and fall in real-time. Other groups might find negotiation more fun, dramatic, and immersive if those exact numbers are hidden from the players. In playtesting, some groups loved seeing these statistics and some groups didn’t, just as some groups like knowing the Stamina of every creature in a battle and others prefer to keep that information secret. Talk to your group about what they’d prefer.

MOTIVATIONS​

Each NPC has at least two motivations the heroes can appeal to with their arguments. Arguments that appeal to an NPC’s motivation require an easier power roll to increase the NPC’s interest. Arguments that don’t appeal to a motivation require a more difficult power roll. See Making Arguments for more information.

Each motivation can be successfully appealed to only once during a negotiation. To successfully appeal to a motivation, the heroes must use the motivation in an argument without mentioning one of the NPC’s pitfalls or being caught in a lie.

PITFALLS​

Pitfalls are motivations that spark ire, discomfort, shame, fear, or some other negative response in an NPC. Using a pitfall in an argument causes an NPC’s interest and patience to wane. Each NPC has at least one pitfall, and many have two or more.

Pitfalls and motivations are two sides of the same concept. They’re presented below as a single list, so that what might be a motivation for one NPC is a pitfall for another. Whenever the heroes make an argument, they risk stumbling into one of an NPC’s pitfalls unless they do their research beforehand or read the NPC well.

LIST OF MOTIVATIONS AND PITFALLS​

An NPC can have any of the following twelve motivations or pitfalls.

BENEVOLENCE​

An NPC with the benevolence motivation believes in sharing what they have with others. However, an NPC involved in a negotiation must be limited in their benevolence, so that they don’t just give the heroes what they need.
Sometimes an NPC’s benevolence might extend only to a specific group of people, so that a benevolent pirate captain might share their plunder freely with the rest of their crew—but they’re still plundering! Other times, an NPC’s charity might be limited by the fact that they don’t have much to give. A benevolent NPC might be hesitant to give the heroes help because they believe their limited resources are more necessary or could do more good somewhere else.

An NPC with the benevolence pitfall has a cynical view of the world, believing that no creature has a right to anything just by being alive. The idea of helping others because it’s the right thing to do is a preposterous, immature, or inexperienced idea to be laughed off or snuffed out.

Arguments that appeal to a benevolence motivation contend that if the NPC strikes a deal with the heroes, the people the NPC cares about will benefit from the deal. Example arguments include the following:

  • “If you lend us the Sword of Agathor, we can make Capital safer for your guild by using it to lay your enemies low.”
  • "If you can teleport us into the dragon’s cave, we’ll give you half the wyrm’s hoard once we cut off the creature’s head. That could benefit generations of students at your academy!"

DISCOVERY​

The other motivations & pitfalls are Discovery freedom Juatice Greed Higher Authority Legacy Peace Power Revelry Vengence & Protection. I'm going to skip those & the mechanics but jump to how NPCs react to the attempt at negotiation because it nicely shows how horribly limited the standard shortsighted "find a way to Yes And..." straightjacket is by including No But & And as explicitly valid options players should expect as plausible

NPC RESPONSE AND OFFER​

After a hero makes an argument, the NPC responds in one of three ways:

  • An NPC responds positively if the heroes increase the NPC’s interest. “That’s an excellent point.” “You’ve given me much to consider.” “Fair enough.” “Makes sense to me.”
  • An NPC responds negatively if the heroes decrease their interest. “I don’t buy that.” “Poppycock!” “I hear you, but I disagree.” “That’s not going to sway me.”
  • An NPC responds with impatience if the heroes fail to increase or decrease their interest. “I’ve heard that before.” “Are you going to offer me anything real?” “This debate is tiresome.” “BORING!”
Unless the NPC is deceitful, it should be clear to the heroes if their argument helped convince the NPC, if they need to take a new approach, or if the argument actually did more harm than good.

The initial response should come with an offer (or a refusal to make an offer) based on the NPC’s current interest. If a hero’s argument reduces an NPC’s patience to 0, the NPC lets the heroes know that this is their final offer.

FOR THE DIRECTOR: REASONS FOR DECEPTION​

Under certain circumstances, an NPC might not want to show the heroes how well their arguments are working. For example, if an NPC’s interest has dropped so low that they now intend to harm the heroes, the NPC might falsely agree to what the heroes ask for as part of a trap. Likewise, a greedy NPC might try to keep their enthusiasm for a deal concealed while their interest is high to obtain more money or favors from the heroes. If a hero thinks an NPC is attempting to fool them, they can make an Intuition test. On a success, the hero learns their true standing with the NPC.

INTEREST 5 (“YES, AND …”)​

If the NPC’s interest is 5, they offer everything the heroes initially asked for—and then sweeten the deal. This result is the best possible outcome for the heroes. If they offered to perform any services or make payments as part of the deal, the NPC might waive those obligations, allowing the heroes to get what they want for free. Alternatively, the NPC might hold the heroes to any offers they made and instead offer an extra service or item on top of what was asked for.

For example, if the heroes asked the boss of a thieves guild for that organization’s help in standing against Lord Saxton, the guildmaster might pledge to send a unit of elite assassins to aid in the battle against that tyrannical noble, and then offer the heroes a quiver filled with explosive arrows to give them an additional advantage in the fight.

The NPC should let the heroes know that this is the best offer they can make.

INTEREST 4 ("YES.")​

If the NPC’s interest is 4, they offer the heroes everything they asked for but won’t sweeten the deal. The NPC also accepts anything the heroes have offered as part of the deal with this result.

For example, if the heroes offered to help spring a guild thief from prison in exchange for the thieves guild’s elite assassins standing against Lord Saxton, the guildmaster agrees to those terms without attempting to adjust anything. This likely ends the negotiation, but it’s possible that the heroes could push for a little more, provided the NPC has the patience for another argument. A Director could prompt the heroes to push for more by having the NPC ask a leading question, such as, “Is there anything else?” or “What else do you want from me?”

INTEREST 3 ("YES, BUT …")​

If the NPC’s interest is 3, they offer the heroes what they want in exchange for everything the heroes offered … then they ask for a little extra, such as a favor or a payment from the characters. If the heroes offered to free a thieves guild member from prison in exchange for the service of the organization’s assassins, the guildmaster might ask them to free an additional prisoner, or to grant the prisoner they rescue a sum of cash or a magic weapon.

INTEREST 2 ("NO, BUT …")​

If the NPC’s interest is 2, the NPC can’t give the heroes what they want. However, they are willing to offer other less impactful goods or services in exchange for whatever the heroes have promised. The guildmaster might not be willing to spare any troops to fight Lord Saxton, but could instead offer the latest spy reports on Saxton’s movements in exchange for the jailbreak.

INTEREST 1 ("NO.")​

If the NPC’s interest is 1, they outright reject the heroes’ idea without a counteroffer. If the NPC still has patience, they might press the heroes for a better deal, saying something like, “Why should we risk our necks to help you fight Lord Saxton? What’s really in it for the thieves guild, other than a short, brutal end when you inevitably fail?”

INTEREST 0 ("NO, AND …")​

If an NPC’s interest is 0, they offer nothing, refuse to negotiate further, and seek to harm the heroes. The NPC might attack immediately, or they could take a different approach, perhaps spreading malicious rumors about the characters, sending assassins after them, or otherwise making their lives difficult. If the heroes don’t want to be at odds with the NPC, they’ll need to offer an valuable gift or undertake a quest just to make amends.

It is impossible to continue a negotiation when an NPC’s interest drops to 0.

FOR THE DIRECTOR: CREATING RESPONSES AND OFFERS​

When you’re preparing a negotiation, think of at least two specific asks that the NPC could make of the heroes. Then you’re prepared if the heroes ask what they can do for the NPC and you want to give a response, or if the NPC’s interest becomes 3.

These asks could be specific items the heroes have or can obtain (such as a magic sword or psionic crystal), or they might be favors in the form of adventuring (such as slaying a dragon or rescuing a village from a siege).

You should also have at least two specific ways the NPC can help the heroes beyond what they’re asking for. These can be used if the NPC’s interest becomes 2, to give the heroes something that can help them that isn’t what they asked for. They can also be used if the NPC’s interest rises to 5, to give the heroes something extra in addition to what they asked for. This help could take the form of treasures or the assistance of a companion or retainer. It might be hidden information that the heroes don’t yet know, and which can help them with their overall goal. Or perhaps it’s a less impactful version of what the heroes initially asked for. If the heroes ask an ancient dragon for help storming a castle, the dragon might offer the services of their younger, less powerful offspring instead of their own assistance … or in addition to it!

KEEP GOING OR STOP​

 
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I tghink i want to run the quickstart -- Delian TOmb -- for my group while we wait for a [REDACTED] project to get to a certain point. So tell me about it.

What should I focus on figuring out, rules wise, before play? Can it be run in one session? How intuitive are the rules as presented for players? Do you a need an explainer session 0 before the play session, if everyone is unfamiliar with Draw Steel? That sort of thing.

Thanks.
 

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