Optimized Build Request Thread - ENWorld Version
Jackinthegreen
Explorer
This one is a build idea I've been kicking around in my head for a while actually.
Basically it takes the halfling rogue sub level in Races of the Wild for 2d6 ranged SA damage at 1st level, then goes into cleric and takes the Sacred Outlaw feat and eventually the Grenadier, Mad Alchemist, and Shaped Splash feats. It would likely need Quick Draw feat too.
Cyclone_Joker
First Post
Depends on the anime.
I'd been trying to suppress my memories of Chlorox.
Regardless, I'd go swordsage. It gives you a decent pseudo-flight and sword-beams, flash step can be replicated by Shadow Hand maneuvers, and Tiger Claw gives you a bajillion attacks. A dip in Whirling Frenzy barbarian, specifically with the Lion Spirit Totem from Complete Champion, gives you a decent way to replicate the mask powerup crap and the second level can give you Wolf Totem from UA to get Improved Trip for free without losing IL. Intelligent weapons are actually pretty good, as constructs are immune to AMFs, although you might just want a Legacy Weapon instead. This build only works at mid-level unless you want to be cheesy and use Bloodlines.
To get more specific, I'd have to reread it and I think I'd prefer dental work to that.
Mad Alchemist line, as JitG pointed out. Although not strictly legal, it would hardly be gamebreaking to include Alchemists Fire and the like in the Call Weaponry power, and if you can I'd suggest Ardent or PsyWar. Otherwise, rogue works decently, as JitG said.
Of course, even with Power Throw, you're going to be almost useless by level five or seven. If this is an E6 campaign or other similarly low-level, this should be fine. If it goes above that, I'd recommend against it.
Cyclone_Joker
First Post
To do so well? No, not really. But if you wanted to be, like, a halfling with a spell-storing boomerang or something, I guess it might be passably usable.
maybe you can help trim the rough edges on one that I have started - 1: Ranger // Sorcerer
2: Rogue acf // Ranger
3: Ranger // Sorcerer
4: Fighter // Ranger
5: Fighter // Ranger
6: Fighter // Dervish
7: Fighter // Ranger
8: Rogue acf (UA 58) // Tempest
9: Ranger // Tempest
10: Sorcerer // Tempest
11: Ranger // Tempest
12: Ranger // Sorcerer
13: Ranger // Tempest
14: Ranger // Sorcerer
15: Sorcerer // Dragonrider ( dracomicon 124)
16: Sorcerer // Dragonrider
17: Sorcerer // Wild plains Outrider (Cadv 92)
18: Sorcerer // Dragonrider
19: Sorcerer // Outrider
20: Sorcerer // Outrider
Built as a Gestalt character for a dragon campaign against evil dragons, the build plans for dragon hunting type feats, as for the animal companion/mount/familiar while they could all be the same animal they will be 3 separate. -the build will use two weapon fighting with the benefit of ambidexterity it will make the penalties go away, & mounted combat.
2: Rogue acf // Ranger
3: Ranger // Sorcerer
4: Fighter // Ranger
5: Fighter // Ranger
6: Fighter // Dervish
7: Fighter // Ranger
8: Rogue acf (UA 58) // Tempest
9: Ranger // Tempest
10: Sorcerer // Tempest
11: Ranger // Tempest
12: Ranger // Sorcerer
13: Ranger // Tempest
14: Ranger // Sorcerer
15: Sorcerer // Dragonrider ( dracomicon 124)
16: Sorcerer // Dragonrider
17: Sorcerer // Wild plains Outrider (Cadv 92)
18: Sorcerer // Dragonrider
19: Sorcerer // Outrider
20: Sorcerer // Outrider
Built as a Gestalt character for a dragon campaign against evil dragons, the build plans for dragon hunting type feats, as for the animal companion/mount/familiar while they could all be the same animal they will be 3 separate. -the build will use two weapon fighting with the benefit of ambidexterity it will make the penalties go away, & mounted combat.
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Jackinthegreen
Explorer
Rely, we're gonna need more information on that. What rogue ACF are you using? Where are the Dragonrider and Outrider from? Does the DM have house rules that change things up, such as using fractional BAB (which he absolutely should with gestalt unless he nixes the interpretation that fighter1/wizard19//sorcerer20 gets BAB 20). Which books are allowed or disallowed?
Also, the ambidexterity feat is 3.0 material which was removed in 3.5. It was baked into Two-Weapon Fighting. If you're using 3.0 and 3.5 stuff, I highly recommend you guys familiarize yourself with what got updated from 3.0 to 3.5 and make adjustments for stuff that didn't get updated.
All that said, going TWF is generally a bad idea since it actually does lower damage than other options like Power Attack, and that's true for being on a mount as well. Mounts work best with charging due to Mounted Combat leading into Ride-by Attack and Spirited Charge. You might be able to make it work with TWF using two lances (since they can be wielded in one hand while mounted) and using the Oversized TWF feat, but the feat investment in that means it's not going to be practical plus you can't use TWF on a charge unless you have a way to get pounce such as the Lion Spirit Totem ACF for barbarians found in Complete Champion.
Do you have Races of the Dragon available? If so, becoming a Dragonborn might appeal to you for this especially on a charge/power attack build since if you decide to get wings from the transformation you can make a dive attack which counts as a charge and deals double damage with any piercing or slashing weapons wielded. Getting pounce and then taking the Shock Trooper feat to turn the accuracy loss from PA into an AC loss will let you get better hits in, if that's a route you're interested in.
You might want to look at this ACF guide for ideas on what ACFs to use.
Also, the ambidexterity feat is 3.0 material which was removed in 3.5. It was baked into Two-Weapon Fighting. If you're using 3.0 and 3.5 stuff, I highly recommend you guys familiarize yourself with what got updated from 3.0 to 3.5 and make adjustments for stuff that didn't get updated.
All that said, going TWF is generally a bad idea since it actually does lower damage than other options like Power Attack, and that's true for being on a mount as well. Mounts work best with charging due to Mounted Combat leading into Ride-by Attack and Spirited Charge. You might be able to make it work with TWF using two lances (since they can be wielded in one hand while mounted) and using the Oversized TWF feat, but the feat investment in that means it's not going to be practical plus you can't use TWF on a charge unless you have a way to get pounce such as the Lion Spirit Totem ACF for barbarians found in Complete Champion.
Do you have Races of the Dragon available? If so, becoming a Dragonborn might appeal to you for this especially on a charge/power attack build since if you decide to get wings from the transformation you can make a dive attack which counts as a charge and deals double damage with any piercing or slashing weapons wielded. Getting pounce and then taking the Shock Trooper feat to turn the accuracy loss from PA into an AC loss will let you get better hits in, if that's a route you're interested in.
You might want to look at this ACF guide for ideas on what ACFs to use.
edited above to include book references - most books are available the DM has ruled to allow the ambidextery from tempest to grant its benefits to the TWF - granted loss of potential damage by doing so - hoping to make some back up with mounted combat and others- dragonborn specificly as worded would nerf the racial abilities and that defeats the build
Jackinthegreen
Explorer
And what race would that be? You haven't provided the race, nor any actual stats. Why did you choose each class in the first place? Also, what feats do you have? What weapons were you thinking of using with tempest? Why do you want to go TWF in the first place? Keep in mind that weapons are rather expensive so having to rely on two of them is going to eat into your wealth.
Tempest is a very bad choice for a mounted attacker. Remember that it's your mount that moves, not you, so you get no benefit whatsoever from Spring Attack. Taking all 5 levels when you won't even benefit from the capstone of getting two-weapon spring attack is a very questionable move. The bonus to AC from using two weapons is pretty crappy and definitely not worth the feats and levels. Getting to apply feats from your main hand to your off hand is alright, but TWF takes far too many feats to get going and be worthwhile without some sort of bonus damage like Sneak Attack factoring in to help mitigate the lower weapon damage compared to going with a two-handed style. Considering you're using the Feat Rogue variant, you don't have any SA damage to help out in that regard. Though that's by no means a bad thing since the feat rogue is an awesome ACF because getting fighter feats is worth more than SA damage anyway.
Dervish requires more levels than 1 to really be worthwhile. If you want to use a scimitar then perhaps using the Great Scimitar from Sandstorm would work, and then go into Exotic Weapon Master from CW to get 2x strength to damage with it instead of the normal 1.5x strength to damage for wielding a weapon in two hands. In only one level of EWM and with far fewer feats invested you'd be getting the same damage through fewer attacks than if you'd spent five levels in tempest.
One of my suggestions is to entirely drop dervish and tempest. On a mounted build they are worse than worthless to you because you could be taking other classes that have much better synergy with that style of combat. That'll free up a lot of feats and class levels so you can actually do mounted combat.
On a mount build you can get some nice stuff for your mount by being a multiclass paladin/ranger and using the Devoted Tracker feat, and then going into Wild Plains Outrider.
If Dragon mag stuff has any potential to be allowed, there is an alternate combat style for rangers from Dragon 326 that grants Ride-By Attack at 2nd, Spirited Charge at 6th, and Trample at 11th instead of the usual archery or TWF feats. If Dragon MAg stuff isn't allowed, it might be worth asking your DM if the style substitution can be used.
Tempest is a very bad choice for a mounted attacker. Remember that it's your mount that moves, not you, so you get no benefit whatsoever from Spring Attack. Taking all 5 levels when you won't even benefit from the capstone of getting two-weapon spring attack is a very questionable move. The bonus to AC from using two weapons is pretty crappy and definitely not worth the feats and levels. Getting to apply feats from your main hand to your off hand is alright, but TWF takes far too many feats to get going and be worthwhile without some sort of bonus damage like Sneak Attack factoring in to help mitigate the lower weapon damage compared to going with a two-handed style. Considering you're using the Feat Rogue variant, you don't have any SA damage to help out in that regard. Though that's by no means a bad thing since the feat rogue is an awesome ACF because getting fighter feats is worth more than SA damage anyway.
Dervish requires more levels than 1 to really be worthwhile. If you want to use a scimitar then perhaps using the Great Scimitar from Sandstorm would work, and then go into Exotic Weapon Master from CW to get 2x strength to damage with it instead of the normal 1.5x strength to damage for wielding a weapon in two hands. In only one level of EWM and with far fewer feats invested you'd be getting the same damage through fewer attacks than if you'd spent five levels in tempest.
One of my suggestions is to entirely drop dervish and tempest. On a mounted build they are worse than worthless to you because you could be taking other classes that have much better synergy with that style of combat. That'll free up a lot of feats and class levels so you can actually do mounted combat.
On a mount build you can get some nice stuff for your mount by being a multiclass paladin/ranger and using the Devoted Tracker feat, and then going into Wild Plains Outrider.
If Dragon mag stuff has any potential to be allowed, there is an alternate combat style for rangers from Dragon 326 that grants Ride-By Attack at 2nd, Spirited Charge at 6th, and Trample at 11th instead of the usual archery or TWF feats. If Dragon MAg stuff isn't allowed, it might be worth asking your DM if the style substitution can be used.
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