D&D General Orcs on Stairs (When Adventures Are Incomplete)

[edosan]

The IDEA of Dragon Heist is apparently pretty cool. And in the hands of a skilled DM who can urge the party along the right path, and figure out how to troubleshoot on the fly, it's probably a blast.

The elevator pitch is a good one - "Ocean's Eleven in D&D? Sign me up!" Unfortunately it comes off as pretty half-baked and while I acknowledge there's always some on-the-fly improv a DM needs to do, it is way more than should be expected in a fifty dollar product.

 

[Retreater]

I dunno what that is because the OP hasn't said the module, what level it's for, or much context at all really... but it's really just that simple.

To be fair, I don't know the name of the module or the other information. This is just in response to my friend's first experience trying to DM and his complaints to me. And I was wondering how others would handle the situation.

 

[Mannahnin]

EDIT: I'm going to exit the discussion here as clearly my intention is not getting across, but set the height to something that will likely kill all the players if they fall. That's it. I dunno what that is because the OP hasn't said the module, what level it's for, or much context at all really... but it's really just that simple. If you think that's unfair, set the height lower.

As I mentioned before, for me, if it's a bare-bones/brief/generic product, where it's deliberately written with gaps, this is fine. I'll set an appropriate damage and extrapolate from there.

But for most editions of D&D, if I'm buying a module for a particular edition, the details actually do matter. If the module is written for a particular level range, the designer normally specifies the distance and damage. The exact distance also matters for factors like whether whatever amount of rope the party is carrying can enable them to easily recover the person or not. Or how long it takes to climb back up after Feather Falling down to the bottom. I agree with the general consensus that if I'm writing and selling a module with an encounter in which bad guys are designed to knock the PCs off a cliff/high place, these are fairly fundamental details I should be providing to the person who's going to run it. If I don't, I've half-assed my job.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

To be fair, I don't know the name of the module or the other information. This is just in response to my friend's first experience trying to DM and his complaints to me. And I was wondering how others would handle the situation.

No worries! I personally don't find the solution that complicated, and sometimes I appreciate when information is vague as it gives more freedom. With what you've described I can't really determine if the omission here would be helpful or frustrating.

 

[James Gasik]

Urriak Uruk is right, the DM needs to figure out if he wants the encounter to be that lethal or not. That having been said, just because experienced DM's can figure that out easily doesn't mean a newer DM can. You could very easily think "this is part of the expected difficulty of the encounter for the PC's to die here".

Certainly, if you told me "there's crumbling stairs and orcs with crossbows", I wouldn't go "oh and crossbows can knock you off stairs" because, normally in game, that's not what crossbows do!

It wouldn't take much guidance to help the DM figure out what the intended lethality is, and then allow them to make an informed choice-

but instead, the new DM has a group of angry players that just got TPK'd by gravity (the worst enemy in all of D&D) and all they can say is "well, uh, I mean, that's what the adventure says!"

 

[Urriak Uruk]

Urriak Uruk is right, the DM needs to figure out if he wants the encounter to be that lethal or not. That having been said, just because experienced DM's can figure that out easily doesn't mean a newer DM can. You could very easily think "this is part of the expected difficulty of the encounter for the PC's to die here".

Certainly, if you told me "there's crumbling stairs and orcs with crossbows", I wouldn't go "oh and crossbows can knock you off stairs" because, normally in game, that's not what crossbows do!

It wouldn't take much guidance to help the DM figure out what the intended lethality is, and then allow them to make an informed choice-

but instead, the new DM has a group of angry players that just got TPK'd by gravity (the worst enemy in all of D&D) and all they can say is "well, uh, I mean, that's what the adventure says!"

This is very true... I don't think omission is a bad thing always, but it is often very unhelpful to a new DM. Handholding I think is required for an adventure in a starter's set, and I don't think they should push the limits of a system much.

 

[James Gasik]

I think I found the Orcs in question, at least, if not the encounter. Orc Archers (Level 4 Artillery) push a target 1 square when they hit with their at-will longbow attack.

 

[Mort]

The elevator pitch is a good one - "Ocean's Eleven in D&D? Sign me up!" Unfortunately it comes off as pretty half-baked and while I acknowledge there's always some on-the-fly improv a DM needs to do, it is way more than should be expected in a fifty dollar product.

One of the most unforgivable points -There's no heist, at least not one the players participate in!

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I think what you're not factoring in is that killing someone's PC, likely at a level and in a way that is permanent and cannot be raised from (given they've fallen an indefinite distance, and their body presumably then rolled down a snowy mountain or w/e), is a serious business for a lot of DMs and players.

This is where context matters. Are the PCs required to do this, or are they doing something stupid? Could they avoid the danger by doing something obvious like roping themselves together? Some DMs are more willing to kill PCs if they are doing something stupid.

I've killed a few PCs in my time.

 

[James Gasik]

The adventure I found those Orcs in didn't have a crumbling staircase, but it did have a large room with a pit in the center of it, where the purpose of the artillery was to knock players into it if possible.