D&D General Orcs on Stairs (When Adventures Are Incomplete)

[Mort]

This is where context matters. Are the PCs required to do this, or are they doing something stupid? Could they avoid the danger by doing something obvious like roping themselves together? Some DMs are more willing to kill PCs if they are doing something stupid.

I've killed a few PCs in my time.

IMO there's a difference between setting up a situation where a PC could potentially die (and then it happens) vs. unilaterally killing a PC.

For example, setting up a 200' cliff scenario (so 20d6 damage on a fall) and the average PC currently has 40hps. falling could well kill a PC. The PCs know this and should try to avoid it happening.

Vs. Just "a cliff" with the DM being cagey/uninformative as to the depth (even roughly) and when a PC tumbles off the DM just looks at the player and says "Sorry, Rothgar's dead." That's the kind of stunt that was done in old school Tomb of Horrors style adventures - and I'm not a fan.

 

[Retreater]

The adventure I found those Orcs in didn't have a crumbling staircase, but it did have a large room with a pit in the center of it, where the purpose of the artillery was to knock players into it if possible.

Again, I'm not sure the name of the adventure and can only go by what my friend told me about it.
1) It was for 4e
2) It was orcs using big bows/crossbows that would push the target
3) They were going to fall a potentially fatal distance
4) It was a relatively low-level adventure (and he was new to DMing)

 

[James Gasik]

IMO there's a difference between setting up a situation where a PC could potentially die (and then it happens) vs. unilaterally killing a PC.

For example, setting up a 200' cliff scenario (so 20d6 damage on a fall) and the average PC currently has 40hps. falling could well kill a PC. The PCs know this and should try to avoid it happening.

Vs. Just "a cliff" with the DM being cagey/uninformative as to the depth (even roughly) and when a PC tumbles off the DM just looks at the player and says "Sorry, Rothgar's dead." That's the kind of stunt that was done in old school Tomb of Horrors style adventures - and I'm not a fan.

Some people like the "death around every corner" style of play. And if they do, more power to them. I did that when I was younger, doesn't have the same appeal for me now.

 

[James Gasik]

Again, I'm not sure the name of the adventure and can only go by what my friend told me about it.
1) It was for 4e
2) It was orcs using big bows/crossbows that would push the target
3) They were going to fall a potentially fatal distance
4) It was a relatively low-level adventure (and he was new to DMing)

I think it might be Orcs of Stonefang Pass, but I didn't find an exact scenario like the one you describe.

 

[Zubatcarteira]

In Storm King's Thunder, a village is attacked by cloud giants who are there to steal a magic stone. The adventure starts by the PCs arriving there, learning about everything, and helping to save the villagers who fled the place and are in trouble somewhere else.

When I was playing it, the very, very obvious plot hook forward is that magic stone. What can it do? Why did they take it? And obviously they'd want to punish the giants who killed so many people, since one of our party members lived in the village and his mom was crushed by a giant rock. The other hooks were all villagers saying, "Hey, can you travel ridiculously far away (one of the places was hundreds of miles away) to tell some people about what happened here/tell the families of the deceased that they died?"

We kinda all agreed that was too dumb to be the real hook and just kept going after that damned stone for a while, until the DM gave up and just told us that there's nothing more about it. After the campaign got derailed, I checked the book and the only other info I can find is a sidebar going, "Maybe a giant wizard wants to use it for a super spell, figure it out, lmao".

 

[Mort]

Some people like the "death around every corner" style of play. And if they do, more power to them. I did that when I was younger, doesn't have the same appeal for me now.

Well sure, if that's what the players signed up for that's great. But that's quite unlikely in a 4e or 5e game!

 

[James Gasik]

Well sure, if that's what the players signed up for that's great. But that's quite unlikely in a 4e or 5e game!

Hey you can always find ways to murder player characters, no matter the edition. Just throw them in the Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan and say the poison gas won't let them rest...

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Are the PCs required to do this, or are they doing something stupid?

Very much sounds like they were hard-required to do this to continue the adventure.

 

[Mort]

Hey you can always find ways to murder player characters, no matter the edition. Just throw them in the Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan and say the poison gas won't let them rest...

Oh, I'm not one to say it's too difficult to challenge/off PCs in 5e. Just that there are generally clear mechanisms to do so, you don't really need to ad lib any (even though you can).

 

[Dioltach]

I think an adventure that doesn't include information that is relevant to the mechanics of the encounter is sloppy. In the case of the Orcs on the Staircase, it's the equivalent of saying, "There are monsters that are likely to kill the PCs."

The rules in the PHB and DMG tell you how to resolve situations. But you need the details of the situation first before you can resolve it. The adventure writer should provide those details, whether it's the number and hit dice of the monsters, the DC of a trap, or the height of a fall. Otherwise they might as well be writing a story and saying, "Here, turn this into a game."