Orcs vs. Commoner Humans

(Psi)SeveredHead said:
Even if I can get over the non-serious flavor of the bard, that class uses magic to inspire courage. That doesn't really fit with realistic military commanders.

So? He's commanding troops that are fighting orcs (and zombies and whatever else), and probably has support from wizards and clerics (or at least adepts). That the qualities in the commander's oratory that inspire them to feats beyond their normal ability are supernatural doesn't seem the least bit out of line in that kind of world.
 

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Land Outcast said:
Take out the magic, good reflex saves, and reduce skillpoints.

Change the songs to "Auras" activated when an order from the commander is issued (and heard).

Add in Armor&Shield proficiency, and Martial weapon proficiency. And a good Bab.

'tis done.
Dude, you could just have included a link to the Marshal base class.
 

LOL! :lol:

I didn't know such a class existed somewhere!

(Actually I was reconsidering to make it keep a 3/4 Bab, but give it free leadership at lvl 6 and d8 HD, maybe I get to post it at the HR)
 


I appreciate the help people have offered with how to pull off the scenario. That circulade is really an interesting design, I may need to use that later.

My own solution was just to beef the Orcs up to level 3 average and give them better weapons. The slaughter went as planned with only one Orc killed to provide a clue as to where the attackers came from. To clarify what had me confused I'll just go over the scenario I actually put together.

The village contained six houses, one inn/tavern and ten dogs, 1 for every 5 commoners. The houses are relatively close together and built around livestock pens and a barn (Which was built over a spring to supply water in the event of a siege) to hold livestock at night. The village lies in a semi-contested area where Orcish raids take place perhaps three-four times a year so the village had what I considered reasonable defenses: A rammed Earth Wall surrounded the entire village and was covered in pongi sticks*. There are two gates built of heavy timber 20 feet through the wall.

Two watchmen walk around the inner perimeter continually, each with one dog along for the march. These commoners who are watchmen were in the King's army and each have either alertness or skill focus on listen and thus tend to have a Spot/Listen score of +6-7. All the commoners will have the one weapon they are proficient in available near their bed in case of an attack.

*A real-life houseruled-in trap. Basically just a really pointy thin spike of wood, usually it's been dipped in something horrible like excrement and causes a nasty infection when it stabs you. Climbing an earthen wall covered with Pongi Sticks requires a DC 15 Reflex save each turn you're on the wall to avoid getting stuck for d4 damage and a 1-in-4 chance of getting a disease.

The problem I have with a lot of the Orc tactics proposed is that they seem to make the same assumption I do, that orcs are screwed against commoners at 2:1 odds unless they are given some advantage. Commers staying in bed translates as "The Orcs have to be given this special advantage or they lose." Saying half the commoners run (Which seems counter-RAW to me since they'll have better Charisma, and hence leadership, than the Orcs do and a slightly better intimidate score), or half the commoners are combat incapable, says the same thing. The Orcs have to be given this special tactical advantage or benefit or fifty commoners and ten dogs kill two dozen orc warriors.
 

(Psi)SeveredHead said:
An orc wiht Int 16 is as smart as they get. That's rare, just like a human 1st-level character with Int 18 is rare. If an orc is that smart, they shouldn't be leading raids. They should be leading multiple tribes.

Well, thats right. But even then average changes should go from 8 to 12 (with -2 penalty woulda be 6 to 10). But INT doesnt mean a thing in this. Even then they are warriors and shoulda be thought like having some skills in combat&warfare tactics.

Like profession(combat) or so. Hey, come on orc lives to fight not to raise livestock, some already pointed that farmers shoulda have farming skills why not orcs have something related too.

Or count BaB as bonus to figure out how well they perform in battle tactics (right word for small scenarios?), operational level is different thing then it won't of course go up with BaB. With that +1 BaB and -1 int (or -1 wis why it should be int based solely anyway) it results as 0, which is same as humans but no skill on anything relevant.

-Dracandross
 

Commers staying in bed translates as "The Orcs have to be given this special advantage or they lose."
Nah, it more says "The orcs have darkvision and a penalty when operating in bright light, this all points toward the orcs attacking at night, a time when most of those commoners will be asleep".

But ultimatly, hey, your game. If you feel you need lv 3 orcs to beat up lv 1 human commoners, by all means.
 

Dracandross said:
Well, thats right. But even then average changes should go from 8 to 12 (with -2 penalty woulda be 6 to 10). But INT doesnt mean a thing in this.

It doesn't? I would have thought it did.

Even then they are warriors and shoulda be thought like having some skills in combat&warfare tactics.

Yes, but real life soldiers, even when well trained, have reasonable smart commanders.

Like profession(combat) or so. Hey, come on orc lives to fight not to raise livestock, some already pointed that farmers shoulda have farming skills why not orcs have something related too.

I'm spoiled by D20 Modern :) I would give them a rank or two in Knowledge (tactics), but the commander would have more, and a higher Int score, too, to go with his higher Charisma.

Or count BaB as bonus to figure out how well they perform in battle tactics (right word for small scenarios?)

No, I think a high-level but not too bright hitman isn't going to have great battle tactics. A high-level assassin might have done missions on his own so long he never really learned any group tactics. Etc.

operational level is different thing then it won't of course go up with BaB. With that +1 BaB and -1 int (or -1 wis why it should be int based solely anyway) it results as 0, which is same as humans but no skill on anything relevant.

But these guys are warriors. They've had a bit of training, at least. I think they should end up better than the commoners but not as good (tactically) as the human warrior militia.

-Dracandross[/QUOTE]

drothgery said:
So? He's commanding troops that are fighting orcs (and zombies and whatever else), and probably has support from wizards and clerics (or at least adepts). That the qualities in the commander's oratory that inspire them to feats beyond their normal ability are supernatural doesn't seem the least bit out of line in that kind of world.

So in such a setting, it doesn't make sense that a rogue can disable traps (even magical ones) without magic?

Ciaran said:
Dude, you could just have included a link to the Marshal base class.

I was having a problem with that class.
 

Moonstone Spider said:
The problem I have with a lot of the Orc tactics proposed is that they seem to make the same assumption I do, that orcs are screwed against commoners at 2:1 odds unless they are given some advantage.

Have you even been reading the other posts in this topic?
 

(Psi)SeveredHead said:
So in such a setting, it doesn't make sense that a rogue can disable traps (even magical ones) without magic?

I always considered trapfinding to be a vaguely magical ability. Otherwise there's no reason why anyone with enough ranks in disable device and/or search couldn't do it.
 

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