Orcus vs. Demogorgon

gyor

Legend
Nope, he was still a mere archfiend in 3e. There was a single 2e source, which stood a little bit outside of all commonly shared setting and planescape lore, that stated him to be a greater deity. Only in 4e was he then officially recognized as a greater deity and since the 5e MM this has been revoked again.

As to the story side, he ascended when he apparently consumed a comatose deity, but in the end said deity was not quite dead yet and when he awoke and broke free of Asmodeus, the later lost a big chunk of his stolen divine power with his unwilling meal.

It hasn't revoked his power, according to the SCAG he's still a God in FR, the MM only says the power of a lesser God, because Asmodeaus power level varies by Setting, in FR and Nentir Vale he's a greater god, in Eberron he's not a God at all, just an Archfiends.
 

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Mirtek

Hero
It hasn't revoked his power, according to the SCAG he's still a God in FR, the MM only says the power of a lesser God, because Asmodeaus power level varies by Setting, in FR and Nentir Vale he's a greater god, in Eberron he's not a God at all, just an Archfiends.
Nope, he lost the greater Level in 5e FR and is now "only" a deity without the greater

Also since we're fortunally back to the one multiverse to House all settings, the Level is equal in all settings, aß there is only one Single entity. It only varies how well known an entity is in a given settings
 

UnknownDyson

Explorer
Nope, he lost the greater Level in 5e FR and is now "only" a deity without the greater

Also since we're fortunally back to the one multiverse to House all settings, the Level is equal in all settings, aß there is only one Single entity. It only varies how well known an entity is in a given settings

Do you have a source for that information? This sounds like headcannon.
 


Nope, he lost the greater Level in 5e FR and is now "only" a deity without the greater

Also since we're fortunally back to the one multiverse to House all settings, the Level is equal in all settings, aß there is only one Single entity. It only varies how well known an entity is in a given settings

Note quite it says that while their is only a single entity, their power level is not equal. The DMG says "Some gods are worshiped on multiple worlds and have a different rank on each world, depending on their influence there."

For example Tiamat as Takhisis is a lesser god in most worlds, but a greater god in Dragonlance.
 

Mirtek

Hero
Note quite it says that while their is only a single entity, their power level is not equal. The DMG says "Some gods are worshiped on multiple worlds and have a different rank on each world, depending on their influence there."

For example Tiamat as Takhisis is a lesser god in most worlds, but a greater god in Dragonlance.
Has she officially be retconned to be one and the same? In previous editions they were two seperate entities, not just two aliases of the dame deity.

Even so Tiamat is not in Krynn (or Oerth or Faerun), she is influencing matters in Krynn and Oerth and Toril all from sitting in her lair on Avernus. She does not suddenly gain more AC or hp just because the party that managed to attack her in her lair plane shifted from Krynn instead of going to Oerth first.
 

cbwjm

Seb-wejem
Has she officially be retconned to be one and the same? In previous editions they were two seperate entities, not just two aliases of the dame deity.

Even so Tiamat is not in Krynn (or Oerth or Faerun), she is influencing matters in Krynn and Oerth and Toril all from sitting in her lair on Avernus. She does not suddenly gain more AC or hp just because the party that managed to attack her in her lair plane shifted from Krynn instead of going to Oerth first.
I don't know of any official retcon or explanation (although on writing this, maybe the 1e dragonlance adventures mentioned it?), I always treated them both as separate entities that shared similar iconography the same as I do with Paladine and Bahamut. As is, she's dead now and Paladine is no longer a god unless all of this gets ignored in 5e which could happen considering how many FR gods have come back in the past.
 

The only way to reconcile the idea of Tiamat (a lesser god afraid of Asmodeus) as Takhisis (a greater creator god and one of the three (not counting the High God or Chaos) most powerful deities of Krynn) is to invoke the sidebar on divine ranks and say that Tiamat is an avatar of Takhisis. In my estimation, a permanent avatar who has gained at least a degree of independence, since she lives somewhere different and interacts with the rest of the multiverse, while Takhisis doesn’t bother with any place but Krynn.
 

cbwjm

Seb-wejem
I know imagine Takhisis rumagging through sets of cosmic scale drawers, wardrobes, and cupboards looking for her misplaced avatar that she swears she had a minute ago.
 

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