Orisons and Cantrips

[Golem2176]

I've seriously been cosidering changing the progression that clerics, sorcerers and wizards have towards casting orisons and cantrips. If you have the Psionics Handbook then you are aware that all Psions can channel an amount of talents (zero level powers) equal to their level plus three for free per day. I was thinking, what if clerics, sorcerers and wizards could cast an amount of orisons/cantrips per day equal to 3 plus their level (with a cap of 23 max)? I think this would balance the classes a bit more and would reflect what most fantasy literature describes. I mean some relatively low level casters often use their ability to do many small tasks per day, some (spells) more than once. Also what if this ability was innate? Meaning, the character would not have to memorize/prepare their orisons/cantrips. All feedback is welcome.

 

[Telperion]

I find nothing specific to grumble about in this, except this:
There are already a huge amount of spells available, and players tend to think too much like: let's do it with a spell.

Personally I find it more entertaining/better RPG to see players accomplish things with actual intelligent actions and skills. Saying "I cast Knock on the lock" is rather boring compared to an experienced thief who first searches for traps, alarms and such, and then attacks the lock. I'm not saying that spell casters aren't good to have around. It's just that too many players are already too dependant on magic as it is.

 

[Golem2176]

Yes, Telperion, you are right. However, 2 notes; one - knock is a second level spell, two - knock doesn't remove traps. You are right a player can cast Knock, however there is no spell for disabling traps, so if there is no rogue are similar type character who can remove traps in the party, they are pretty much up a creek without a paddle.

 

[Telperion]

True enough: Knock is a 2nd level spell. But the point that I was making wasn't aimed precisely at orisons and cantrips. The idea of allowing more freedom with spells, and more casting capacity fairly quickly, tends to draw people towards the "let's do it with a spell" way of thinking. And, IMHO, leads to game-degeneration: rolling dice and mumbling spell names whenever a problem comes along.

On another point: I receantly noticed that I have seven players in my group. And quite frankly I wouldn't want to lose any of them, because everyone contributes something to the group in an essential way. D&D seems to be made for large gaming groups, and that's okay with me. As long as the people who craft this system don't force me into taking more than seven players at a time =).

 

[Golem2176]

bump.

 

[Golem2176]

Okay, so nobody else has anything to say? I guess it must be balanced, then.

 

[DreamingCJ]

Okay, so nobody else has anything to say? I guess it must be balanced, then.

Heh, heh. Silence = concent. I love it.

Would clerics, druids, and wizards still have to prepare their 0-levels?
Would bards gain this same benefit? Would it be a lower number of cantrips?

 

[bensei]

Some 0th level spells could become too good, if a caster could cast too many of them. E.g. cure minor wounds, disrupt undead, and some others appearing in class books, etc.

 

[Golem2176]

I have put together a list of the spells that I think a character would have innately.

Cantrips
Arcane Mark
*Chill/Warmth
*Clean
Dancing Lights
Detect Magic
Detect Poison
*Dowsing
*Enumerate
**False Flavor
**Filch
***Jolt
Light
Mage Hand
Mending
Message
Open/Close
Prestidigitation
*Quick Sober
Read Magic
***Unnerve
**Elina’s Perfume

Orisons
*Clean
Create Water
Cure Minor Wounds
Detect Magic
Detect Poison
Light
Mending
Purify Food and Drink
*Quick Sober
Read Magic

*Relics & Rituals
**Relics & Rituals 2
***Kingdoms of Kalamar Player’s Guide

The spells on these lists are innate meaning, the cleric/sorcerer/wizard does not have to prepare them. Think of these spells as seeing everday use. Bensei, think of how many lives could be saved as opposed to how many hit points a single character can get out of it. Also, keep in mind that the prior list is just what I think would see the most use of, even if a commoner had only about 1 or 2 levels of cleric, sorcerer or wizard. I created this ruleset to establish a feel of high magic for my campaign, it may not be appropriate for other campaigns.