Bonedagger
First Post
It's their willingness to get physical.
Edit: Said without trying to stray into offensiveness or sexism
Edit: Said without trying to stray into offensiveness or sexism
Last edited:
[OT] Girls who can beat you up
- Thread starter RobNJ
- Start date
Furn_Darkside
First Post
Ashtal said:What I really like is that these 'tough' women come in a lot of different styles, personalities and strengths. Real characters. Real people. 'Bout time!
*chuckle* I really hope that characters like Buffy, Dark Angel, Xena, and the like are not an example of the real characters/people you are talking about.
I will agree that variety is great, but I don't think that the "damsel in distress" is a wussy stereotype- it is still a powerful storytelling tool and one I enjoy.
Perhaps it is just my own Cyrano/Don Quixote/white knight preference- the romantic notion of fighting for the one you love.
FD
Furn_Darkside
First Post
Leopold said:
Salutations,
oh, yes! Of course!
But, it means more to me as the viewer when a guy does it.
Why? Because I am a guy.
It is the same reason I own a lot more music sung by men then by women.
It is not because I don't very much enjoy the beauty of women (heck, I believe women are the definition of beauty), but it is much easier for me to empathize with a guy's point of view then a woman's point of view.
That is why I fully agree that I like the variety of female roles, but don't care for the trend that more and more action files/series always have the woman being the tough one. Going from one extreme to the other doesn't appeal to me.
FD
It's not funny at all! Of course a gal can go rescue a guy! Why not? 
As for types - I don't watch Dark Angel, and Xena wasn't the only hero on that show. Besides, Xena strikes a cord with enough viewers so even though she may not float your boat, she's sure floating a lot of others.
For me, I look at the shows I watch. Buffy, Angel, Alias - we've got lots of different kinds of women (not just the title characters) shown in a variety of different ways with their own unique personalities. THAT'S what I'm talking about. They aren't cookie cutouts. They have goals, fears, and personalities that affect how they do what they do. That's what's appealing and what's been missing from the fairly standard roles always given to women - saint, whore, lover, damsel - but 9 times out of 10 entirely secondary to the male hero's journey.
Women are people, and interesting at that. They can be just as heroic as men, and it's about time they started getting some air time!
As for types - I don't watch Dark Angel, and Xena wasn't the only hero on that show. Besides, Xena strikes a cord with enough viewers so even though she may not float your boat, she's sure floating a lot of others.
For me, I look at the shows I watch. Buffy, Angel, Alias - we've got lots of different kinds of women (not just the title characters) shown in a variety of different ways with their own unique personalities. THAT'S what I'm talking about. They aren't cookie cutouts. They have goals, fears, and personalities that affect how they do what they do. That's what's appealing and what's been missing from the fairly standard roles always given to women - saint, whore, lover, damsel - but 9 times out of 10 entirely secondary to the male hero's journey.
Women are people, and interesting at that. They can be just as heroic as men, and it's about time they started getting some air time!
SableWyvern
Cruel Despot
Personally, I take these shows on their merits, and a strong female lead is irrelevant.
I enjoy Buffy for the great blend of comedy and horror, not because of Buffy character herself. OTOH, I think Alias is pretty average as a show, enough that I really don't know anything about the lead character. Interestingly enough, if we're talking about finding these types of women attractive, I've always considered Willow a more attractive character than Buffy.
I must admit that I do find it hard to empathise with certain aspects of some of these shows (namely the damsel in distress reversal). While I don't have a problem with chicks rescuing guys, I have a distinct lack of respect for male characters that let their women-folk run off into danger and just sit back and let them, without at least trying to help out. While they may not have the skills and capabilities of these superwomen, I know that in their position I'd be doing everything possible within my means - and that would not include hiding somewhere out of danger. Of course, that's probably why I joined the army, but anyway...
I enjoy Buffy for the great blend of comedy and horror, not because of Buffy character herself. OTOH, I think Alias is pretty average as a show, enough that I really don't know anything about the lead character. Interestingly enough, if we're talking about finding these types of women attractive, I've always considered Willow a more attractive character than Buffy.
I must admit that I do find it hard to empathise with certain aspects of some of these shows (namely the damsel in distress reversal). While I don't have a problem with chicks rescuing guys, I have a distinct lack of respect for male characters that let their women-folk run off into danger and just sit back and let them, without at least trying to help out. While they may not have the skills and capabilities of these superwomen, I know that in their position I'd be doing everything possible within my means - and that would not include hiding somewhere out of danger. Of course, that's probably why I joined the army, but anyway...
This sort of gets at the crux of my question. Yes, it's good that women aren't passive victims and the like, but this uniformity of interest in women who for some reason must be physically superior to men is what I'm curious about. In some circles, the focus seems to be on the fact that you want this woman, and she can beat you up, and that's why you want her. I've seen the phrase in several genre publications, "Best of all, she can kick your ass!"Ashtal said:
I'm trying to figure out what it is specifically about a woman's ability to beat you up that would in itself be something that's interesting. Someone else suggested that physical prowess indicated sexual hunger. Whether that's the answer or not, that's the kind of thing I'm most curious in.
And I do think it's good that these women aren't just victims. At the same time, most of them seem to have to suffer horribly in order to gain this traditionally male power. Max is subject to blinding eplieptic fits, everyone Buffy loves dies or has something horrible happen to them, by the end of the Alien series, Ripley is barely human, and so on.
Furn_Darkside
First Post
Tough Women & Starship Troopers
Salutations,
I just recalled an interesting anecdote RobNJ might want to look into more.
On the Starship Trooper DVD, there is commentary by the director.
At one point he goes into a discussion of the love triangle in the movie and how the test audiances reacted versus his goal.
(I don't recall names of characters, sorry)
The director had planned for the pilot character to be the ideal woman of modern times- someone who did not allow romance to hold back her career, and was willing to end a relationship to pursue her own dreams.
He also figured the other marine, the one with the red hair, was more of an example of women in the past. A women willing to follow the man she loved.
However- the test screenings had the total opposite reaction - people hated the pilot character and really like the female marine with the red hair.
Of course, some of that may have to do with acting, but.. *shrug*
You may want to give it a rent and hear precisely what the guy has to say on the matter.
FD
Salutations,
I just recalled an interesting anecdote RobNJ might want to look into more.
On the Starship Trooper DVD, there is commentary by the director.
At one point he goes into a discussion of the love triangle in the movie and how the test audiances reacted versus his goal.
(I don't recall names of characters, sorry)
The director had planned for the pilot character to be the ideal woman of modern times- someone who did not allow romance to hold back her career, and was willing to end a relationship to pursue her own dreams.
He also figured the other marine, the one with the red hair, was more of an example of women in the past. A women willing to follow the man she loved.
However- the test screenings had the total opposite reaction - people hated the pilot character and really like the female marine with the red hair.
Of course, some of that may have to do with acting, but.. *shrug*
You may want to give it a rent and hear precisely what the guy has to say on the matter.
FD
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