[OT] Girls who can beat you up

[RobNJ]

As for suffering - I think you have to separate that from the fact that they are female characters.

I'll agree with you here. I'm hesitant to even underline that too much. Still, I think the mean suffering of female action heroes is greater than that of males . Most male action stars do not suffer overmuch, whereas I'm hard pressed to think of a single female of this archetype who doesn't. Compare, say, James T. Kirk to Seven of Nine. James Bond to Sydney Bristow (sp?).

Good genre men (Leonard Shelby from Memento) are tortured and complicated, but even bad genre women (with the sole exception of Lara Croft) seem to suffer, and the suffering seems to be disproportionate.

Anyway, I don't want to focus overmuch on this because I don't want to criticize writers who make their characters suffer. I'm curious more about what it is about someone who can physically beat you up that makes some guys so frisky.

 

[Rel]

IMHO, there's no great mystery here. For most of recorded history sexual roles acceptable to western society have been pretty clear cut. Women are nurturers, but not in an agressive way and men take care of them and protect them.

Only fairly recently has it become ok to swap these roles and it is still fairly novel and controversial. Guys who stay at home with their kids while their wives work are looked at somewhat askance and women who "kick butt" are also a new phenomenon.

It is no wonder that given our long history of set sexual roles that many women secretly or openly desire to take a more dominant role in society, relationships and action movies. Likewise it is unremarkable (to me anyway) that many men desire the feeling of release that comes with giving control over to a woman. Ergo, they find women who "kick butt" (which is often a thinly veiled metaphor for sex if it is veiled at all) to be attractive because it implies that they might be the kind of woman who would "take over" in the bedroom.

And I would like to assure Eric's grandmother that when I say "take over in the bedroom" I mean "be militant about making the bed". I promise.

 

[Storminator]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Tough Women & Starship Troopers

Ack.. can't resist further hijack..

Heinlein is an interesting author- he seems to have two different type of fiction:

1) entertaining
2) commentary

The latter is where some of his more severe view points seem to poke through.

He is still a good author, though.

FD

I like the first half dozen or so Heinlein books I read, but they are all the same. Some sci-fi society is created to show the weakness/deficits/irrationality of ours. Kinda gets old.

But back to the topic, lets not forget that these women are physically gifted. Muscles are in (not in extremes, as none of these women are). The scene where Buffy and Spike literally **** the building down is pretty damn hot in my book.

PS

 

[Teflon Billy]

...What I really like is that these 'tough' women come in a lot of different styles, personalities and strengths. Real characters. Real people. 'Bout time!

I have yet to see one that wasn't really, really pretty.

The tough chicks sure seem to have that in common at least.

 

[reapersaurus]

A different take:

My wife and I VERY seldom believe women in action roles.
She, more than I even.

Buffy, Dark Angel, etc are simply NOT believable enough in their action roles.
They look effective only because of tricky editing, etc.

The few women who can pull off a physical role invariably do NOT have the modernday ultra-"feminine" small-body;
Lucy Lawless (even Renee O'Conner, who played Gabrielle), Linda Hamilton, Sigourny Weaver, Bridgette Nielson, Grace Jones, Carrie Anne-Moss, Sandahl Bergman, Angela Bassett, etc.

THESE women can play believable physical roles.
My wife detests when Hollywood throws a waif into a physical role and expects people to swallow it hook line and sinker.
Charlie's Angel's comes to mind (tho she thought the movie was fun enough, that part REALLY didn't work).

 

[Forrester]

Salon Article

Interesting Salon article on this very topic:

http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2002/07/02/powerpuff/index.html?x

An interesting point is made near the end:

"Still, with the rise of the sexy heroine in movies like "Tomb Raider" and "Enough" and TV shows like "Alias," "Dark Angel" and "She Spies," the more salient question for budding feminists may not be whether it's acceptable to be powerful and pretty at the same time, but whether being powerful without being pretty is even an option."

 

[Leopold]

I have yet to see one that wasn't really, really pretty.

The tough chicks sure seem to have that in common at least.

i think sigourney weaver was hot as hell in aliens..the 4th one and in some other flicks...listen to her interviews she is one of a kind!

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

A most touchy subject, this one.

It is a credit to those who post to the ENBoard that this thread is still open at all ... those who post here are courteous and considerate people, IMO.

Since this thread is asking for commentary, I will give a little of mine.

I do believe that bright, self-confident, and self-assured women are attractive to men.

Why would men fantasize about bright, self-confident, and self-assured women, if this were not the case?
Why would men watch programs about women like this, if they did not find such women attractive?

- - -

It is unfortunate that so many women, in my experience, have low self-esteem, and are afraid of acting in a self-assured (and thus healthy, IMO) manner, especially in the face of a cruel and relentless Real World ... a Real World as cruel and relentless as any place fantasized about in gaming (again, in my opinion.)

 

[LostSoul]

I think that writers have to be aware that it's easy to make a female character a "masculine" one; a character that doesn't really have very many "feminine" traits and is pretty much the same as all the old male action heroes in every way but body type.

I'd like to see more strong female characters because of their femininity, not despite it.

 

[UD]

My Girlfriend. Shes nails.