[OT] Hero System Fifth Ed Review

Black Omega

First Post
Hero System Fifth Rules Edition (often called FREd) is the first new rule book in 13 years from Hero Games, newly bought and revitalized by Steve Long's DOJ, which I'm given to understand means "Defenders of Justice". I'll give alot of credit here to Mr. Long. The manuscript for this book was given to the old Hero Games people like four years ago and they did nothing. Just a few months after buying Hero Games, the book not only is reality but the first supplement has already been shipped to the printers. They seem serious about reviving the Hero System, certainly a welcome thing.

At first glance (I like how Psion does his reviews:)
Hero System Fifth edition is a 373 page hardback book, a black cover with a variation on the Herogames logo 'man in hexagon' instead of actual cover art. Predictably the black cover picks up fingerprints like no one's business. I can say that at least with all the bright cover art commonly on books, the plain, functional look stands out a little, and seems to get around the problem that generic covers tend to suck. The pages are a heavier stock than normal, so the book seems even thicker than it is. Since much of the interior art is reused from past books (something it might take a Champions geek like me to notice) I suspect part of how they got the book out so fast was not putting much money into the art. With FREd evidently selling very well, opefully future books will have more original art. The layout is greyscale but pretty nice and very functional.

At first glance the biggest change and only real paradihm shift is that for the first time this is truly a Hero System book. Past editions were always first published as 'Champions: the super roleplaying game'. And as a afterthought "and you can do more with it." Now Hero System is being pushed as a universal RPG that happens to be well suited to superheros.

In depth

They start with basics of character creation with discussion on heroic/human level and Superheroic games. Interesting the standard superheroic level has been increased from 250 pts to 350 pts, but the rest is as before. Characteristics have also changed very little. But happily alot of work has been done on skills and talents, not only in balancing and adding on to them, but in frying up some old sacred cows that had survived into 4th ed. There was never any good reason fast draw was not considered a skill someone could learn. Now in FREd, it's one of a new catagory of Combat Skills.

The best thing is that so much has become even more flexible. Hero System has always been a very flexible system but now even more is customizable. For example, in the past Life support had a few simple catagories. For 5 pts you did not age at all. Not there is a scale from 1 pt to 5 pts that slows your aging. For 5pts you still don't age, but say, 2 pts your lifespane is 400 years. Powers are more clearly defined and balanced with more examples given and more options with the advantages and limitations.

A new advantage called Megascale actually seems to cover a grey area Hero System had been weak in. In the past there was FTL flight and normal flight but supersonic flight was way to expensive. Anything on a large scale cost more than it was worth. With the megascale advantage you can create someone who can teleport halfway around the world or set up a laser on the moon that can reach Earth. It's just that the laser won't be much good against someone standing 20 feet away.;)

The one thing I've found in the book I didn't like was that..well..it was too universal. Unlike in 4th Ed, there are no example characters at all. For Hero System vets this is no big deal. But for someone who has never used the system before, a few examples characters would have gone a long way toward showing them what the system can do.

A related quibble, Champions Ironics got the shaft!:) Seeker, Defender and the rest were totally left out. It's my understanding there will be genre books, in the fashion done for Gurps I suppose. So the Iconics will appear in the Superhero Genre book. But still, it's a disappointment.

Overall
FREd is not a paradihm shift like 3rd ed DnD was. The rules function in much the same fashion as they did before. A character built in 4th ed. will look much the same, though the costs of powers will change some and there are some new options that might be worth adding on. For those people who dislike Hero System for being open and complex..well..there is even more to dislike. The system is even more flexible and there are even more options. Highly recommended for Hero System fans and people who want a more flexible break from d20.

After literally years without any new Hero books, it's a pleasant surprise that with the release of FREd, the second new Hero book, Ultimate Martial Artist, has been sent to the printers and should be released in mid May. And Ninja Hero, a genre guide to martial arts campaigns, is underway, being written by Michael Surbrook.
 

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I'm not very familiar with the Hero System but with GURPS and from your review it sound very much like the big-G System.

Can anyone tell me what the difference between Hero and GURPS is?

THX!
Baumi
 

Baumi said:
I'm not very familiar with the Hero System but with GURPS and from your review it sound very much like the big-G System.

Can anyone tell me what the difference between Hero and GURPS is?

THX!
Baumi

Let me preface this by saying I've never actually played GURPs. So, this won't be a comment on the specific systemic differences.

First of all, they are similiar in that they are both point buy systems that have a core system that can be adapted to any genre. Champions (the original basis of the Hero System) came first as a superhero game, and later the basic system was adapted to other genres (Espionage, Fantasy, Robot Warriors, Sci-Fi, Pulp). It makes sense that a superhero system would be adaptable to other genres. There are just so many subgenres within superhero fiction that it would have to cover many.

Champions is much better at handling a high-power, superhero campaign. A lower power game suffers from a loss of granularity, characters tend to look more alike.

GURPs is the opposite. It handles a the lower power game better, but apparently is poor at handling the more high power superhero game (i.e. the Wild Cards book adapt well, DC Comics heroes don't).

Also, they both have been marketed differently. The Hero System has always been mainly a superhero game mainly. There have been a few books for other genres. However, only Fantasy Hero, Espionage/Danger International and Justice, Inc. have been supported beyond a campaign book to my knowledge. There have only been a few other genres besides those.

GURPs seems to be marketed based on it's genre books. There are many, many books, including quite a number of licensed books. Admittedly, it seems only a handful of these books see anything more than a single book. Still, the sheer number of these mean there you can use a bunch of similiar books (running a Spy game, why not incorporate the Illuminati book).

Glyfair of Glamis
 

Thanks for the insightful review, Mr. Omega. I was just asking an old gaming buddy about Hero 5th tonight on the phone. Nice to jump on line and find this waiting for me.

The question I'd like to ask you is if youw ere to run a Super-Hero game would you run with the old and reliable game of Hero System or wouldja try the Wild Talents by Hobgoblyn Press in a few months?

Thanks again for the review...
 

Baumi said:
I'm not very familiar with the Hero System but with GURPS and from your review it sound very much like the big-G System.

Can anyone tell me what the difference between Hero and GURPS is?

THX!
Baumi
Steve Jackson in the Introduction to Gurps basic gave credit to Hero System for some of the ideas used in it:).

More generally, from what I've seen of GURPS it's more realisitic and a little more complex in it's rules while Hero System is more cinematic nada little more complex in character creation, at least for superheros.

The systems have alot in common though. Point based with you buying characteristics and skills with the points. Armor stops damage, it doens't make you harder to hit. You have disadvantages that allow you to spend more points.
 

Black Omega said:
The best thing is that so much has become even more flexible. Hero System has always been a very flexible system but now even more is customizable. For example, in the past Life support had a few simple catagories. For 5 pts you did not age at all. Not there is a scale from 1 pt to 5 pts that slows your aging. For 5pts you still don't age, but say, 2 pts your lifespane is 400 years. Powers are more clearly defined and balanced with more examples given and more options with the advantages and limitations.

How is a lifespan of 400 years any different than a lifespan of infinity in a RPG? I mean different as in why would you want to spend 3 extra points for the (Infinity - 400) years that you're not going to see anyway.

I'm not bashing Hero per se, just arguing. That's what people do on the net.
 

Paka said:
Thanks for the insightful review, Mr. Omega. I was just asking an old gaming buddy about Hero 5th tonight on the phone. Nice to jump on line and find this waiting for me.
No need to be formal, my friends call me Black.:)

The question I'd like to ask you is if youw ere to run a Super-Hero game would you run with the old and reliable game of Hero System or wouldja try the Wild Talents by Hobgoblyn Press in a few months?

Thanks again for the review...
This was a book I've been waiting years on. I could not wait to read it then post on it.

If I was going to run a superhero game? Change that 'if'to 'when'.:) And I'll be going with FREd. Champions has been around for 20 years, with all the benfits that go with that. Alot of books, alot of play testing, alot of depth. Wild Talents might be perfectly good, and I might even get it to steal ideas, but Hero System is best at Superheros. I'd say go with it.

But then, you are asking someone who is biased.;)
 

Re: Re: [OT] Hero System Fifth Ed Review

Numion said:


How is a lifespan of 400 years any different than a lifespan of infinity in a RPG? I mean different as in why would you want to spend 3 extra points for the (Infinity - 400) years that you're not going to see anyway.

I'm not bashing Hero per se, just arguing. That's what people do on the net.
I would not take that as bashing. But my answer would be...because my character concept is someone who'll live (400 years, 600 years, forever, whatever). You may run into an attack that your longevity will protect you from, but the odds of that are long. It's more for character concept. If you have 350 points to spent, you can spare 2 points for concept.:)
 

more questions

Black,

I hear ya, Champions was a great system and I've never conceived of a character that I couldn't sit down and make up right there on the spot from WWII super-brick to Goblin refugee of a war in Arcadia with stolen Elven Boots, Elven bow and arrows and Elven Chainmail (Snaggle Darksoul was fun). The system, with a ton of numbers, works.

Does the incredible amount of math bug ya?

And does 5th ed. come with some kind of computer program so that we can make characters on our computers. I used Heromaker with the old computer and found that it was REALLY useful.

Later,

P-
 

Hello!


Black Omega, I'm both heartily thankful for the review, and horribly envious that you have your copy already ;). This is one product I've been looking forward to for quite some time now.

Posted by Baumi:
Can anyone tell me what the difference between Hero and GURPS is?

Glyfair has done a nice job of summing up the common perceptions about GURPS and Champions. Here are a few items he didn't really go into:

  • Where Hero System, as Glyfair said, started out as the superhero game Champions, GURPS evolved from the fantasy end of the spectrum, with Melee/Wizardry/The Fantasy Trip and then Man to Man among its ancestors.
  • GURPS has tried harder to emphasize simplicity. It has kept the number of basic stats down to 4, and provided Advantages and Disadvantages (Strong Will, Extra Fatigue, etc.) to customize specific aspects of them. Hero, on the other hand, has 14 stats for each character, 8 basic and 6 "figured" (derived in part from the basic stats). Hero also uses a segmented speed chart, similar to that used in Star Fleet Battles and other boardgames, to time combat, while GURPS sticks with the simpler and more traditional concept of extra actions performed all at once during character's place in a rotating turn sequence.
  • GURPS is generally deadlier than Hero in all genres, a product of its emphasis on realism and Hero's origins in the four-color comic world where major characters seldom die.
  • Point costs in GURPS often try to represent rarity of an ability as well as its usefulness - the escalating cost of character stats is the major example of this. Especially in higher-powered campaigns, this approach can result in ridiculous character point expenditure for very little return. The alternative ST cost chart in GURPS Compendium I is a sign of a move away from this mindset, and the fact that they would break the simple symmetry of costs for the different character abilities shows how much of a problem some thought this approach was. Hero, on the other hand, tries to price its abilities purely by usefulness, and the 100th point of a stat you buy will cost the same as the 1st. The major exception to this is in character disadvantages, where, to encourage variety, point values of successive similar disadvantages eventually start to decline.
  • Hero is closer to being a true "meta-system" than GURPS. In GURPS, if you want to give your character an ability, what you generally do is find the rule supplement containing that ability, and then spend your points on it. In Hero, you look around at the goodies the system has to offer, and if your ability isn't directly among them, you use them to construct the ability yourself (customizability of character abilities in GURPS is a bad joke compared to that in Hero). The GURPS way is quicker, better defined, and given the research that goes into the supplements, generally more realistic. The Hero way is more flexible, and doesn't require a bookcase full of supplements.

Hope this helps! And thanks again, Black Omega; here's hoping you enjoy your campaign :).
 

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