[OT] Metric system.

Samnell

Explorer
MeepoTheMighty said:
I'll be the first to agree that base 10 is a good thing, but there's nothing more or less intuitive about one set of units over the other. Actually, metric units are even less intuitive. A foot is roughly the length of a man's foot. A meter was originally one ten-millionth of one-fourth of the circumference of the earth, and was later changed to the length that light travels in vacuum in a time interval of 1/299,792,458 of a second. Yeah, that's intuitive. [/B]

What if you have especially big or small feet? Plus with base 10 you can use your fingers. :)

The US will probably never switch, though. The metric system is too logical and user-friendly. We leave that sort of thing to scary foreigners.

Personally, I don't care where the meter came from. The length of a man's foot is at least as arbitrary as the distance light travels in a yada yada of a second. Base 10 is the whole thing. You give me a system that takes its base unit from its creator's penis length and uses base 10 and I'd be happy with that too.
 

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Ravellion

serves Gnome Master
Samnell said:
What if you have especially big or small feet? Plus with base 10 you can use your fingers. :)

The US will probably never switch, though. The metric system is too logical and user-friendly. We leave that sort of thing to scary foreigners.

Personally, I don't care where the meter came from. The length of a man's foot is at least as arbitrary as the distance light travels in a yada yada of a second. Base 10 is the whole thing. You give me a system that takes its base unit from its creator's penis length and uses base 10 and I'd be happy with that too.

Of course, an added bonus is is that their is also a lot of synergy between metric measurements.

1 litre = very, very, very near 1kg
1 litre = 10 by 10 by 10 cm.

Oh and Meepo, a life threatening fever would be 104F now wouldn't it? Wasn't 100F a mismeasurement(!) of Fahrenheit's own body temperature?

Rav
 

Iron Sheep

First Post
MeepoTheMighty said:
The problem that we have in this country with not understanding the metric system is that basically, nobody has any fundamental grasp of metric measurements. Everyone knows about how long an inch is, but they have to think about how long a centimeter is. I don't really understand how every other country managed to just switch all of a sudden without everyone being confused.

I grew up in Australia with the metric system, but now live in the US, and I have the exact reverse problem. Over the years I've learnt how to roughly convert to the units I understand. For example, I now know that a pound is about half a kilo; a quart is a little less than a litre, and so a gallon is roughly 4 litres and a cup about 250 ml; a yard is roughly a metre; a mile is about 1 and half km, but for practical purposes it usually works to think of it as a "big kilometre." All of this is good enough for things like cooking and checking that the answers of calculus problems I work for my students are in the right ballpark.

I still have problems with the internal conversions of the US system, though. For example, I can never remember if a pound 16 or 12 ounces, or how many feet to a mile (it's 5000-something, I think).

My parents, who have used both systems for significant parts of their lives, don't seem to have any trouble working in either system.

As for how you accomplish the change, you basically have to have a government with the will to make it stick given the inevitable complaints; plus good public education and some related laws to back it up. And then keep it up for a generation or so. I know that in Australia it was illegal to advertise quantities using the old Imperial system until very recently. You couldn't sell your fruit by the pound, only by the kilo. A law like that would probably be against the free speech parts of the US constitution, and many Americans would resist it on principle even if it was constitutional. But on the flip side, there was a lot of education in the 60's in Australia about how to convert to metric in practice for people like merchants and construction workers.

I've never understood complaints like those of trancejermey's (in fact, I'm not even sure if he's serious or trolling). I've heard people say that it's stupid that, for example, their quart of milk becomes 0.94 litres (or whatever it is exactly), when in practice what happens is that your quart of milk becomes 1 litre (and you get an extra 5% or so volume). In fact, as far as I can tell, A 1 quart carton and a 1 litre carton are identical. Your 2-by-4 piece of wood doesn't become a 5.08-by-10.16, it becomes a 5-by-10. Similarly, the TV news doesn't usually give temperatures with decimal places. It's good enough to know that the temperature outside is 37C or 38C to know that it's bloody hot, you don't say that it's going to be 37.7C tomorrow any more than the US weatherperson says it'll be 100.2F outside.
 

Michael Tree

First Post
trancejeremy said:
Given that where I live, the temperature outside ranges from about 0 F to 100 F, it's much better to use that than - 17.7 to 37.7 C. Any temperature scale in which you have to use a decimal point is seriously flawed for everyday use. Even if you don't, it's such a screwed up range. -20 or so to 40 or so?

Who the heck uses decimals? That's an utterly spurious argument. It's like arguing that farenheit is flawed because -10 1/3 F to 96 1/2 F are pointless uses of fractions.

Otherwise you're basically arguing that it makes sense for the entire country to use an outdated and overly complex system because the ranges are nice round numbers in the small geographical area where you live.

Where I live, the range is quite solidly -30 to 30 C, not that this argument actually has any validity even if it wasn't.

[/B]Celsius is even sucky for science - have to convert it to Kelvin anyway to do anything. It's an abomination.[/B]
I honestly can't tell if your entire post is facetious.

You are aware that Celsius and Kelvin are the same scale, right? They just measure zero from different points. To change from one to the other is a matter of simple addition.

And no one ever uses the proper metric unit for weight - the Newton. Everyone uses kilograms, which is for mass.
Your point? Most of the time we are in fact measuring mass, not weight. Doctors scales, for example, measure mass. That's why they use counter-weights to make the measurement. Food products masses listed on packages are also masses.

And what about that metric time? 10 hours a day? Sheesh.
Is there even such a thing? Nice straw-man argument. :rolleyes:

In truth, the reason why you don't like decimals is that you grew up on the imperial system, and it's what you know.
 

Michael Tree

First Post
Iron Sheep said:
I grew up in Australia with the metric system, but now live in the US, and I have the exact reverse problem.
Likewise. I'm Canadian, but moved to the U.S. a couple months ago for grad school. Although it was difficult at first, and I basically had to learn whole new price comparisons of "what is a good price" for gas, groceries, and so on, I've basically adjusted. It's really not all that difficult.

What amazed me when I first arrived wasn't that I didn't know how many cups in a quart, it's that many of my American classmates didn't know either!

As for how you accomplish the change, you basically have to have a government with the will to make it stick given the inevitable complaints; plus good public education and some related laws to back it up. And then keep it up for a generation or so.
So what you're saying is that it's never going to happen here.
The concept of an American government that has will, that values education, and sticks with a plan for a long time is almost unthinkable! :D

I've heard people say that it's stupid that, for example, their quart of milk becomes 0.94 litres (or whatever it is exactly), when in practice what happens is that your quart of milk becomes 1 litre (and you get an extra 5% or so volume). In fact, as far as I can tell, A 1 quart carton and a 1 litre carton are identical. Your 2-by-4 piece of wood doesn't become a 5.08-by-10.16, it becomes a 5-by-10. Similarly, the TV news doesn't usually give temperatures with decimal places.
Exactly. It always amazes me that people assume that metric countries use metric conversions of imperial measurements, rather than nice round metric measurements.
 

Samnell

Explorer
Michael Tree said:
Is there even such a thing? Nice straw-man argument. :rolleyes:

There was briefly. When the French started up the whole metric thing they tried base 10 timekeeping too. 10 hour days, 100 minutes to an hour that kind of thing. No one liked it because it didn't match up well with when the sun went down and all that. It occurs to me that our timekeeping doesn't hold up very well there either unless you don't have much in the way of seasonal variation.
 

shadow

First Post
Uuugghhh. Metric! Sure it's more logical, but we're Americans! We have to have our own special system. We can't use the system which the rest of the world uses, we have to go our own way. Besides, saying "I was driving 100 Miles per hour" sounds a lot better than saying " I was driving 162 Kilometers per hour".
 


Iron Sheep

First Post
shadow said:
Besides, saying "I was driving 100 Miles per hour" sounds a lot better than saying " I was driving 162 Kilometers per hour".

Ah, yes, but if you say that you were driving 150 kilometres per hour, not only does it sound faster than 100 mph, but it's easier to do as well!

;)
 

Wormwood

Adventurer
America will never, ever convert to metric.

The government will never impose it, the marketplace will never demand it, and the people don't want to be 're-educated'.

We don't care.

Next question.
 

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