reapersaurus said:
Too many people take such an unrealistic approach to careers, it's scary.
A auto mechanic hears that Cisco engineers pull down over $100 an hour, and decides to take a loan, take a course, and expects to come out with a high-paying job.
It doesn't work that way anymore.
Agreed, and I'll add that it never really worked that way. There are people who are technically inclined, and those who aren't. I would say don't let money be your primary motivation, but more on that below...
Gargoyle:I don't agree with this at all.
I think you're doing yourself a great disservice not learning hardware and software for any computer-related job.
I'll have to agree to disagree then. The trend I see is younger network engineers who are doing just fine with very little PC hardware or software experience. The only reason they had to take jobs for a couple of years (or as little as a few months) as a help desk technician or in a break/fix or server environment is that they didn't have the access to the Cisco gear earlier, (edit- or just didn't know the right people). Putting the gear in the hands of younger people will accelerate this trend.
I have heard hundreds of tales of people in high-paying jobs who really don't know that much about computers because they seem to have concentrated on just what they needed to know to get thast one job done.
That might help you do that one task, for that one employer, but it won't help you in the long run.
In fact, one cert doesn't cut it in the slightly, of course.
You must continually learn and expand your knowledge base or technology will trample you faster than a Sauropod with a bee stuck in his butt. 
I totally agree. You have to keep learning to stay valuable, no matter what you're doing. I'm not advocating stagnation, only specialization. Believe me, specializing in something as broad as "Cisco routing and switching" takes many years, and that's not even touching on security, voice, other network vendors, etc. There's plenty of room to learn and grow in any of these "specialities".
As for entry level jobs that allow you to do Cisco routing .... you must live in a different kind of job environment, is all I can say. 
Actually I woudn't bet on "doing Cisco routing" in such a job, I was referring to a network management job where you're really just monitoring a network, or flying around the country plugging in routers that are already preconfigured, (if you're lucky you might get to copy and paste a config in...). Yes there are entry level jobs doing Cisco work. No they're not very easy to get, and knowing someone helps. But a cert helps a lot. (I'd still recommend going to college and getting at least a CCNP first though, or even better the network + then the CCNP)
I agree with other things you said.
Network+ is a MUCH better introduction to networking than CCNA.
And FOR YOU, perhaps a greater concentration on networking and routing would have gotten you farther, faster than you are today.
However, I think it's safe to say that you shouldn't be copying your background for someone starting out today.
It is a different place, and the last 10 years are not what it's like anymore in networking today.
It's a totally different place, and that's my point. You shouldn't have to go through several other careers to get to the one you want.
(I'm really just stating the obvious here, but...) When advising people, you should take the GENERAL into account, not a couple people's experiences.
Hundreds and thousands of people try to get into this field every year.
Some are successful, some are not.
Unless you can rely on knowing somebody to get you a job (which STILL is the best way to get a new career, don't let anyone dismiss that), you should have a solid plan and breadth of knowledge before entering the field.
enough for now.
good discussion -
My advice was really directed at the exceptionally smart kid like Brainburn's, not the general public.
But I agree, good discussion.
now, Gargoyle - explain this to me - WHY the heck would you not be working ALL the time as a Routing engineer if you can make 1/4 of that an hour, instead of trying to make money in the RPG field.
THAT should be an interesting reply.
Very astute. The short answer is that money is no longer my primary motivator. I do work full time as a network engineer. I bill an average of 50 hours a week, and sometimes a lot more, and I make a bit more in salary and bonuses than your well-educated guess. (Negotiation is such an important skill...) I write RPG stuff whenever I can. Right now I'm on "vacation" slaving away on Call of Duty (poor me..
) . But really, if money is your motivation, you shouldn't get into the RPG industry.
To sum it up, I like the experience of working the RPG industry more than the network industry, and money is not my primary motivator.
More specifically:
- I love to write things that are creative rather than technical (such as detailed engineering documents, scopes of work, etc). It gives me more satisfaction, probably because it is harder for me.
- I want to be my own boss.
- I want to work at home and choose my own hours, rather than 50+ hours a week, including every other weekend, minimum. I've had about four weekends off since April. (I'm on vacation right now, that's the only reason I have time to post this!)
- I get a thrill when someone lets me know that they enjoyed using something I wrote in an actual game.
- Things that I publish will still be around long after I'm dead. Morbid thought, I know, but after I hit 30 I started thinking like that.
- I like gamers (well most of 'em). I like going to GenCon. I like associating with people who are creative, fun, and thoughtful. I like playtesting something and calling it "work".
- I have most of the things I want. I've got lots of good stuff, a good house, nice vehicles, etc. I have no desire to get rich. Technically speaking, I am probably already richer than most of the population of Earth, even though I'm only considered "middle-class" here. My quality of life is good.
The real question is why haven't I quit my job and started writing RPGs full time. The answer of course is money. I've got a wife and two kids to support, and can't afford to do it. Yet.
