D&D 5E [Out of the Abyss]Magic item distribution?

CapnZapp

Legend
How does OotA stack up compared to the DMG magic item treasure distribution guidelines?

I am aware the sandbox nature of the adventure means any given party might miss out on some of the loot, but still.

I'm interested in general statistics; Things that give me an idea of how much, if anything, I need to add myself to get to the level of loot I want.
 

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DMCF

First Post
I gave a +1 longsword to my group after finishing Harried in Hillsfar before the Drow railed them and took all their gear. Will he get it back? Depends if searches the chest in area -censored-.

I plan on using lots of magic items but many of them will be consumable. Dawnbringer is too buff in my opinion for that level and I have a big group. I need to balance everyone's desire for magic items. Wonderous items, magic ammunition, potions and scrolls (not spell scrolls) will balance it out.
 

It's hard to say as the DMG guidelines are random. You can compare them to average rolls, but that's more of a guideline than hard rule anyway.
After all, the PCs begin with nothing and don't hit anywhere they can sell treasure for four or five levels.
 

CapnZapp

Legend
What I want to know is: if I play OotA, how close to (or far from) the distribution suggested by the DMG will it be?

There has been a lot of threads analyzing the DMG tables and associated guidelines.

If they suggests you find, say, three permanent items each up until level 15 (just pulling random numbers out of thin air here), but Out of Abyss gives you only one, or seven, or even exactly the three, I want to know about it.

Cheers! :)
 

zingbobco000

Explorer
What I want to know is: if I play OotA, how close to (or far from) the distribution suggested by the DMG will it be?

There has been a lot of threads analyzing the DMG tables and associated guidelines.

If they suggests you find, say, three permanent items each up until level 15 (just pulling random numbers out of thin air here), but Out of Abyss gives you only one, or seven, or even exactly the three, I want to know about it.

Cheers! :)

I'll be checking when I get home, and I'll edit this to show you. In order to try and keep it orderly I'll be going by 1 chapter / level and assuming it's a 4 person party. It appears like there are definitely a lot of consumables, more so then Princes of the Apocalypse though the permanents are in question and I believe there are more permanent magic items as well, though I have to check.

Ok, so there are obviously some spoilers in what I'm about to say and I'm not really sure how many magic items the PCs should get/level but here's my list:

Note: I'm not including any random encounters

Chapter 1: Prisoners of the Drow:
This one is kinda confusing as you don't really get that many stuff in general, however, there is the chance that you can obtain without being brutally slaughtered by super OP monsters:
2 Potions of Healing (Table A)

Chapter 2: Into Darkness:
2 Potion of Greater Healing (Table B)
+1 Dagger (Table F)
Oil of Slipperiness (Table B)
Sun Blade (Dawnbringer) (Table G)
Necklace of Fireballs (Table C)
Philter of Love (Table B)

Chapter 3: The Darklake:
All of the treasure for this involves stealing so that's kinda iffy
2 Potions of Healing (Table A)
Potion of Water Breathing (Table B)
Spell Scroll of Light (Table A)

Chapter 4: Gracklstugh:
Some of this treasure involves getting it from a Adult Red Dragon so... Uhhhh... Yeah! Another possibility is that the characters try to take down a fortress, that's also interesting.
Stonespeaker Crystal (Doesn't have a table but is rare so putting it on table G)
Oil of Sharpness (Table D) (Dragon)
Potion of Flying (Table D) (Dragon)
Potion of Longevity (Table D) (Dragon)
Potion of Supreme Healing (Table D) (Dragon)
Boots of Speed (Table G)
Spell Scroll of See Invisibility (Table B)
4 Potions of Healing (Table A)
Potion of Invisibility (Table D)
Potion of Greater Healing (Table B)
Potion of Fire Breath (Table B)
Potion of Psychic Resistance (Table B)
Keoghtom's Ointment (Table B)
Dwarven Plate (Table H) (Duergar Lord)
+2 Warhammer (Table G) (Duergar Lord)
Guantlets of Ogre Power (Table F) (Duergar Lord)


If you compile all of this you get (excluding the ones that are very hard to get like from the dragon or the duergar lord):
9 Magic Items from table A
10 Magic Items from table B
1 Magic Item from table C
1 Magic Item from table D
Nothing from table E
1 Magic Item from table F
3 Magic Items from table G

This is kind of close under the assumption that you're getting max rolls as you only have a 9/10000 chance to get the two table G magic items. However, on average, this is an insane amount of good magic items. Also, something that's interesting is the fact that there are 3 magic items from Table G but only one from Table F and nothing from table E. It's like a weird positive porabola.
 
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G

Guest 6801328

Guest
I gave a +1 longsword to my group after finishing Harried in Hillsfar before the Drow railed them and took all their gear. Will he get it back? Depends if searches the chest in area -censored-.

I plan on using lots of magic items but many of them will be consumable. Dawnbringer is too buff in my opinion for that level and I have a big group. I need to balance everyone's desire for magic items. Wonderous items, magic ammunition, potions and scrolls (not spell scrolls) will balance it out.

I'm going to have Dawnbringer scale with its owner's companion's level. +1/+2/+3 every six levels, and have the bonus damage scale, too.

And it's going to have a solid blade that radiates light. I detest the light saber theme.
 

CapnZapp

Legend
Dawnbringer is too buff in my opinion for that level
I feel it's obviously good but not crazily overpowered.

In fact, I'm happy WotC/GR had the guts to place it there. It should go a long way to restore that sense of wonder; that magic items are magical again. It could even spawn a future legend among D&D players... "remember when we found that sun blade at level 3..." :)
 


zingbobco000

Explorer
Contrary to popular opinion, yes Sun Blade messes with the data, HOWEVER WotC thought about it an actually gave it the ok to be on a list of possible magic items you can get when rolling on a level 1 table it's a 3% chance of getting the table then another 1% chance of getting that exact item but whatever, they made it possible. Anyway, I've given my analysis of the first four areas and overall, OotA has a pretty large amount of magic items, not only that but a large amount of powerful magical items. If you want to see I edited it into my previous post.
 

jgsugden

Legend
With average rolls and a typical sized party, PCs will end up with roughly 6 permanent magic items per PC by level 20, with half of them attuned. For an up to 15th level adventure, you should see about 75% of that amount (4 or 5 per PC) by the end of the adventure.

You're going to see overpowered (relative to design mechanics) PCs if they have 3 or 4 permanent items by 5th level, or more than 6 by 10th. However, if you roll ability scores, a lot of PCs are already exceeding recommended power levels with their higher than expected attributes where an extra +2 beyond what a point buy would have is roughly equal to a table H permanent item (Ioun Stone).

Regardless, in a 15 level published module, I would not worry about it too much. For the life of the adventure, it should be self balanced. Keep to the module and you'll be fine. If, at the end of the adventure you wish to continue, look at the items that the PCs have and - if overpowered - adjust. A thief, a monster that eats magic, or a story in which they need to give up items to get ahead (the magic fire eats items before answering a riddle, you need to give up a magic item to the baron before he'll reveal his clue, etc...) can help rebalance the game.

And when all else fails, TPK and start anew.
 

CapnZapp

Legend
Quick note: I'm not so much concerned the adventure will hand out too much loot and that I will get an OP group on my hands.

I'm more coming from the angle "how little loot is handed out and how much leeway to add some of my own?"

Put otherwise, I don't want to add much myself if that takes the loot "over the top" as it were.

Better then to ask y'all first, and to turn my decisions into informed decisions :)
 

zingbobco000

Explorer
Quick note: I'm not so much concerned the adventure will hand out too much loot and that I will get an OP group on my hands.

I'm more coming from the angle "how little loot is handed out and how much leeway to add some of my own?"

Put otherwise, I don't want to add much myself if that takes the loot "over the top" as it were.

Better then to ask y'all first, and to turn my decisions into informed decisions :)

There is enough loot that your players should be happy, though you might want to change the +1 Dagger in chapter 2 to a +1 Glaive or other polearm as those seem to be lacking. Other then that it should be just fine for your players. (If not a bit much)
 



DMCF

First Post
which 'that level'? they will be traversing the Underdark through 7th level.... just have them run into that Tomb near the end.

I could have stated this better:
I'm running at average max+1 for the adventure since it is during Encounters and we always have a shortage of DMs.

In my group therefore, I see it as OP Pre-chapter 7. I do see myself adjusting the encounter for later however.

I'm not saying it's bad to have Dawnbringer there. It works great for small parties, especially w/o darkvision, who can easily be overwhelmed in the Underdark. In the large party scenario I see it as making things a little more difficult for the DM.

The reason I don't like OP items in big groups has nothing to do with scaling I can control, but the feeling of resentment in other players when they see someone cutting through NPCs like butter. I can balance that too but the more powerful the item, the less time I feel I have to work with.
 

CapnZapp

Legend
Sure, just check my post, I have everything for levels 1-5 there!

If you want I can work on the later tiers!
I think I expressed myself clumsily.

First off: thank you for your work!

If I read your data correctly there are three (3) permanent magic items to be had. (Counting tables A-E as "consumables" and F-I as "permanents". I am aware this is rough, since there is a 20% chance or thereabouts that any random roll on the "consumables" tables actually yields a permanent or semi-permanent item. Of course, this doesn't matter in this case once the actual items become known)

Since this is only for the first five levels, I guess this is okay. However. I currently don't know if I will be able to corral the party into visiting all the locations, and besides, you do make it clear there's no guarantee all of the loot will be found. (That you disregard loot you need to murderhobo your way through a king and an OP dragon is perfectly alright, by the way!) On the other hand, if there are permanent items to be had from random rolls in random encounters, I do think it would be valuable to take note of them too.

The way I'm raised on D&D is that consumables aren't "real" items, and that around level 5 you could expect to get your first magic item (your first permanent magic item, that is). So your report for levels 6-10 will be most interesting! If your findings does not suggest it is very likely the party will find two'ish items per character by level 8-10 or so that is on the low end for my personal preferences, and I shall have to start making up more.

Cheers,
 

zingbobco000

Explorer
I think I expressed myself clumsily.

First off: thank you for your work!

If I read your data correctly there are three (3) permanent magic items to be had. (Counting tables A-E as "consumables" and F-I as "permanents". I am aware this is rough, since there is a 20% chance or thereabouts that any random roll on the "consumables" tables actually yields a permanent or semi-permanent item. Of course, this doesn't matter in this case once the actual items become known)

Since this is only for the first five levels, I guess this is okay. However. I currently don't know if I will be able to corral the party into visiting all the locations, and besides, you do make it clear there's no guarantee all of the loot will be found. (That you disregard loot you need to murderhobo your way through a king and an OP dragon is perfectly alright, by the way!) On the other hand, if there are permanent items to be had from random rolls in random encounters, I do think it would be valuable to take note of them too.

The way I'm raised on D&D is that consumables aren't "real" items, and that around level 5 you could expect to get your first magic item (your first permanent magic item, that is). So your report for levels 6-10 will be most interesting! If your findings does not suggest it is very likely the party will find two'ish items per character by level 8-10 or so that is on the low end for my personal preferences, and I shall have to start making up more.

Cheers,

Ah, I just noticed I messed up, there should be 3 table G magic items as I forgot to include the stonespeaker crystal. If you want I can calculate the average number of random encounters/travel and then calculate how many magic items would be had from that. I severely doubt that it's two / character though for levels 8-10. A-E is mostly permanents but there are some highly powerful permanent magical items like the necklace of fireballs or Keoghtom's Ointment since they are multi-use consumables. I'm going to try to analyze levels 5-10 next however something very important is that Escape from the Underdark - Mantol Derith will most likely not give you a level. This works out quite nicely as assuming all the other chapters give one you'll end up at 15th level. Watch my later post for my summary of 5-10!

Thank you again!
 
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Kestrel

Explorer
Tangent, but I think I might make potions not consumable. Instead, the vial is magic and refills after a certain period of time (like a week or something)
 

zingbobco000

Explorer
Tangent, but I think I might make potions not consumable. Instead, the vial is magic and refills after a certain period of time (like a week or something)

That would disrupt the balance of potions by a lot, players would most likely not by potions and a lot of potions would become almost worthless if the players got them a second time.
 

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