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5E Out of the Abyss - No Drizzt afterall?

Mercule

Adventurer
Do people REALLY have those or is it like the stories where the infected spider bite starts spilling baby spiders? The only Drizzt clone I ever ran into was in 1987, actually BEFORE The Crystal Shard was published, and I don't think I've ever seen a dual wielding scimitar-equipped dark elf in my D&D games in 25 years. Not to say it's NEVER happened, but I just haven't seen it as a common occurrence. I've seen far more Housewives on the Bravo Channel than I have seen drow wielding scimitars. :)
Yes. During the late 1980s and early 1990s, the two most popular repeat character requests in my D&D were 1) Drizzt clone and 2) lesbian drow dominatrix-lite (always by guys and always in a creepy way). This is across multiple groups with no overlap, other than me being the GM. While I'm generally open to a lot of things in an RPG, I haven't allowed drow or gender-bending in about 20 years because I just didn't want to deal with the way it played out every single time. Even into the 2000s and starting up a 3E game, I still had people want to play Drizzt.

YMMV, but I've had my lifetime quota of Drizzt.
 

Nebulous

Adventurer
Dang. Well there goes my plan of secretly joining the demons and betraying Drizzt, turning him over to the demon lords or a long and painful death with a side dish of reaching emotional closure myself ;)
Oh, you can still TOTALLY do that :)
 

Nebulous

Adventurer
I used Drizz't (and I always called him Drizzit and it's stuck with me) once and he was the victim of a black dragon in a cage and the PCs rescued him. They MIGHT have even gotten one of his swords out of the deal. I can't remember now, it was 2e.

Edit - I do not hate Drizz't, not at all. I quit reading the Salvatore books after maybe the 6th one, they got too repetitious. Too many detailed choreographed fights of his fighting ability. But it didn't make me hate the character, and I never had a player try to emulate him. I totally understand over-saturation though, and it hit that mark a LONG time ago.

Makes me wonder though, for the 13-16 year old crowd...they're probably far from being sick of Drizz't unless they've gobbled up, what, 28 or 29 novels so far? GOD that IS a lot of dual wielding drow. Like I said, I only read maybe six or 7 of those.
 
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JeffB

Adventurer
Yeah. In the same way that Jar Jar Binks is the most iconic character from the prequel trilogy.
Sad thing is, even George was able to come to his senses and make him a non-issue by the third movie.

WOTC, not so much.
 
The closest I ever saw to a Drizzt Clone was a half-elf ranger with two shortswords and a pet wolf. The angst and gluttony for punishment was telltale though.

To be fair, I saw more Raistlin and Dalamar clones then Drizzt, hopefully WotC will do a Heroes of the Lance AP so they (and Tasselhoff) can be ground into paste under the foot of a mighty red wyrm.
 

Nebulous

Adventurer
Sad thing is, even George was able to come to his senses and make him a non-issue by the third movie.

WOTC, not so much.
I don't think George has come to his senses ever since he made Howard the Duck. I would think the only reason Jar Jar was relegated to background is due to fan backlash. If people had LOVED him, hell, he'd been a full Jedi lightsaber wielding freakshow by the end :)
 

Sacrosanct

Slayer of Keraptis
Wow, what's with all the hate? He is the most iconic character in D&D history. This is pretty much a fact.
I guess. Depends on who you ask. For example, I think Elminster, Strahd, or Raistlin are probably more iconic, but that's gonna be because of when I started playing and what types of campaigns I play. I guess he probably is recently, because the big push with him all over the place. Which sort of answers your first part. He's all over the place. And he's a Mary Sue to boot. When Crystal Shard came out, he wasn't any more special than Bruenor or Wulfgar, but suddenly all the EMO goths of the late 80s fell in love with him and thus everything became about Drizzt. He was the most important personality, always broody and angsty, all the women wanted him (even the enemies) and all the men wanted to be like him, and no matter what happened, he always survived. Unkillable. Textbook Mary Sue. How much of that is Salvatore making him one based on his own opinions, or because the fans demanded it I don't know.

And he's been the most hated-by-gm's archetype for power-gamers to emulate since 1992. Actually, probably earlier - once people saw the combat uses of Dance and/or acrobatics in AD&D 2e, coupled with style specialization - two weapons..
Yep, earlier. When specialization rules and drow playable race showed up in AD&D Unearthed Arcana. I've seen quite a few Drizzt clones myself.
 

Green1

Villager
I've seen three since 1992. One took just the concept, and developed organically away from it. The other, he got pissy when he found that I didn't share his view of the world with him at the center as the special snowflake. The other is a rogue in my current AL game, but at least he's being subtle about it.
Then it is not so much the concept of a Dritzzt template but a certain type of player we all run across from time to time - the "special snowflake" who always wants to shine and gets pissy if he or she doesn't? Then runs out of your campaign when the game is not a masturbatory power fantasy with your other PCs as minions, leaving you as DM with lose ends? We could say the same about someone wanting to play Legolas, Thrall, Elminster, Gandalf, or anything else as their inspiration. Separate the concept from the bad behavior.

I still think strict player control is to blame. Or, certain kinds of potentially disruptive players who could have played any other kind of class/race/style combo.

Now, if we are talking Dragonlance kender, I can completely understand. Not because of hatred of the little folk, but the whole "borrowing" err.. stealing from PCs kind of gameplay it encourages I find disruptive. And, it is the only thing I refuse in my game.

As far as the whole"Drow came from an evil society... blah, blah. Impossible. Not in my world." I don't buy . I still think some of you other grey neckbeards just don't like PCs being cool.

And by the way. DMs who do not let the players play something they like within reason really need to go the way of typewriters and VHS tapes.

I personally avoid the "control DM" fantasy stereotype that only plays levels 1-5 and only allows a narrow selection of preapproved characters in his sessions.
 

Sacrosanct

Slayer of Keraptis
And by the way. DMs who do not let the players play something they like within reason really need to go the way of typewriters and VHS tapes.

.
That there is the kicker though, isn't it? You may think it's perfectly reasonable to play a minotaur, but in my world, they aren't allowable PC races. What's reasonable is highly subjective
 
Then it is not so much the concept of a Dritzzt template but a certain type of player we all run across from time to time - the "special snowflake" who always wants to shine and gets pissy if he or she doesn't? Then runs out of your campaign when the game is not a masturbatory power fantasy with your other PCs as minions, leaving you as DM with lose ends? We could say the same about someone wanting to play Legolas, Thrall, Elminster, Gandalf, or anything else as their inspiration. Separate the concept from the bad behavior.
This.

Drizzt is a template, like Raistlin (my god, talk about Mary Sue), Conan, Legolas, Tasselhoff, Sephiroth, and dozen's of other characters. Drizzt is a tad more overt because for many editions, Drow was usually an optional race and therefore needed DM permission (vs. Raistlin, where all you needed was a human wizard with an evil alignment). It also didn't help that drow were usually OP as a race. (Warforged were similarly OP and suffered just as much scorn by many DMs).
 

SkidAce

Adventurer
I think all the naysayers and doom callers that cried "WotC sucks and Drizzit will ruin everything, how can they be so stupid" should enter this thread and proclaim that they were wrong.

Just my two cents...
 

Kinak

Villager
Do people REALLY have those or is it like the stories where the infected spider bite starts spilling baby spiders? The only Drizzt clone I ever ran into was in 1987, actually BEFORE The Crystal Shard was published, and I don't think I've ever seen a dual wielding scimitar-equipped dark elf in my D&D games in 25 years. Not to say it's NEVER happened, but I just haven't seen it as a common occurrence. I've seen far more Housewives on the Bravo Channel than I have seen drow wielding scimitars. :)
Back in the 2e days (jr. high and high school for me), we had one player that played a straight knock off. Like... changed the first name and that was it. Was still a Do'Urden, even though we weren't in the Realms.

The IP infringement was a source of derision, but never really a huge deal. He eventually dropped the character after many years after failing an important mission beyond his ability to repair.

So, yeah, they're out there. But, if you know someone who insists on playing that character, it's like anybody else who only has one character. If the campaign isn't appropriate to that character, you just don't invite them.

Cheers!
Kinak
 

Mercule

Adventurer
That there is the kicker though, isn't it? You may think it's perfectly reasonable to play a minotaur, but in my world, they aren't allowable PC races. What's reasonable is highly subjective
This. Players who don't want the GM to curate a world that interests them within reason really need to go the way of typewriters and VHS tapes.
 

halfling rogue

Villager
My group has almost always based PCs off of some kind of template and most didn't even think about it like that. All the dwarves ever played were essentially Gimli, etc. Even the guys that wanted to play a Dragonborn were basically Conan the Dragonbreath or Aragorn the Returning Draconian King.
 
My group has almost always based PCs off of some kind of template and most didn't even think about it like that. All the dwarves ever played were essentially Gimli, etc. Even the guys that wanted to play a Dragonborn were basically Conan the Dragonbreath or Aragorn the Returning Draconian King.
There is nothing new under the sun.

Most PCs end up being templated off some fictional character, consciously or unconsciously. I'm sure most of us can boil our PCs down and find the archetype (Conan, Raistlin, Elric, Gimli, Bilbo, Arthur, Robin Hood, etc...) To claim your tired of Drizzt clones but cool with Scottish-drinking-dwarf # 9521 or frail-brooding-amoral-wizard # 3345 is kinda a cop out.
 

jrowland

Villager
Yay! a bash/defend Drizz't thread!

My turn!

I personally don't care, in module, out of module, PC plays drizz't clone, whatever. I don't care. Its all fun and games anyway.

That said, I miss the "Evil of which we shall not name" aspect of Drow in the early days...you built up to the reveal of drow manipulation behind the scenes. In short, having drow appear was a surprise and a cause for players to gasp in fear. Now drow are just another race. That's ok (see above. I don't care, its all fun n games), but I do miss it. And more importantly to me, nothing has quite taken it's place.

For Warhammer fans, imagine if Skaven were just another race players could play. It's kinda like that.

I am only guessing, but I imagine a lot of people (grognards I suppose) feel the same way, and the whipping boy for that Drizz't. I made my peace with drow being "commonplace" and so never felt animosity toward Drizz't or Drizz't clone playing. Just finished Archmage last night, matter of fact.

I think we'll be seeing a lot of drow PCs in this campaign season, lol!
 

lowkey13

I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
Yay! a bash/defend Drizz't thread!

...

I am only guessing, but I imagine a lot of people (grognards I suppose) feel the same way, and the whipping boy for that Drizz't. I made my peace with drow being "commonplace" and so never felt animosity toward Drizz't or Drizz't clone playing. Just finished Archmage last night, matter of fact.
First, I have never made my peace with it. Nope. Not going to, either.

Second, Drizz't is a useful synechdoche for the phenomenon of both what you describe (the horrible misuse of what was a classic archetype in D&D) as well as being representative of the type of angst-y, Mary Sue-itis that plagues some gamers. The unique and special snowflake aspect of gaming.

That said, I agree with you that there is no "badwrongfun," but some people take things a little bit too seriously. To compare it to sports (I know, boo!), it's fine to joke and make fun of other people's teams, so long as it's joking. But when people really, truly believe that the laundry they root for is "better" than the laundry someone else roots for?* Meh.

My groups don't have drow players because we think that's stupid- and that's our choice. It can be done well (I've seen a DM have a great campaign with drow, duregar, and deep gnomes revolting against the oppressive evil of the underdark, for example), but IMO it's usually the exception to the rule. But if someone is having fun with it- more power to them!

But it also, I think, takes a sense of humor. I've had some terrible taste in my own characters in the past. It happens. Find me a person who hasn't played a character based on some fantasy archetype (whether it's Drizz't, or Conan, or Gandalf, or Elric, or Covenant) and I'll show you a liar.

But it can be fun talking about it. I like to bash Drizz't a little, because it's enjoyable. And, um, easy. But I also don't take it seriously.

*Except the Yankees. They do suck.
 

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