D&D 5E Out of the Abyss - No Drizzt afterall?

[Mercule]

Granted, he's splashed all over the Rage of Demons stuff, but, that makes sense. Rage of Demons features two novels and a video game. Fair enough. But, unless you read the novels or play that game, who cares?

This makes me think of the perfect way to frame Drizzt and the other "name brand" NPCs. They are the generic stand in for the PCs, and only exist in timelines where there are no PCs. That'll never be canon, but it's a nice thought.

Minor amusement: my phone autocorrected "generic" to "hemorrhoid" the first try. Seems totally appropriate, in context. I guess Siri doesn't like Drizzt, either.

Edit: More autocorrect issues than I thought.

 

[lowkey13]

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[Irennan]

About the prominency of Drizzt, I will just say 1 thing. 5e FR is getting around 4 novels year. After the Sundering, the setting needs a lot of updates and they are getting delivered through novels. The Sword Coast Adventurer's guide will be a comprehensive update, but it probably won't have room to discuss some details that can instead be found in novels. Despite this, 2 of the 4 yearly novels are Drizzt, and, differently from -say- Ed Greenwood's, or even Erin Evans' novels (IIRC her next novel will cover the Old Empires), according to what I've seen, they tend to be fairly self-contained (in the sense that they hardly include info or references to the rest of the setting).

So, while we're in need of updates, while Ed's column dedicated to the Realms has been ditched, while we're getting only as much as 4 novels/years, Drizzt takes half of that (and he has already got like 30+ books just for him). Now, I understand that Drizzt sells, WotC has to maximize profit and so on (and heck, I even like Drizzt as a character), but come on... I mean, RAS is doing the drow now, and events that are huge for the race and to which Lolth should react, mainly the return of Eilistraee and Vhaeraun, aren't even mentioned.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Given the absolute paucity of material out for 5e so far, the fact that Drizzt has those mentions is telling. Sure, you seem to be relying on your personal knowledge that no one ever plays a Drizzt clone, which is belied by the experience of just about everyone else, the fact that Drizzt is hardly mentioned in 5e, which only has the 3 core books (which consist of a PH, a DMG, and a MM!), and then claim that he is both insanely popular (so he deserves to be everywhere) but is also almost non-existent (which, again, does not seem to be quite accurate).

Look, it's fine to like Drizzt. But it's also fine to hate on him. If you want to play in a group of 5 Do'Urdens (Druzzt, Drippt, Drakkt, Droolt, and Droppt) all of whom are misunderstood good rangers, just scimatar'ing the evildoers, getting the ladies, and hangin' out with their magic panthers, then that's great for you. That's fun. And if your DM and your group says that Drow are all "EVIL KILL THEM" then that's great too.

I don't think you're persuading anyone, though.

I think you are confused at his point. He never said Drizzt deserved to be everywhere. He just said that Drizzt is a popular character from a novel series. People generally like him. So you should expect to see his picture used from time to time in marketing.

You should also expect some players to like him enough to emulate him. The same way they will emulate, Merlin, Arthur, Conan, Harry Potter, or any number of characters from movies, TV, and anime they like.

But that he is NOT everywhere. He barely gets a mention outside of his novels. If you think he's everywhere that is more your perception than reality. I'm guessing the word Drizzt and references to him and his deeds occupy less than 0.0001% of all non-novel D&D products.

If you think he is overblown, that's your opinion, but it just isn't supported with facts. You might want more novels based on other characters, and that's fair enough, but if you don't read or pay attention to novels you don't need to know Drizzt even exists. I know a number of players who have absolutely no idea who he is.

As for hating him. I don't think anyone should HATE anyone. Dislike, sure. But hate implies way too much passion for something as small as a character from a D&D novel. If your emotions towards Drizzt rise to the level of hate, I'd suggest reevaluating why you invest so much mental energy on something so small.

 

[AntiStateQuixote]

I saw the title of the thread, and the FR version of the classic Disney song just popped into my head. " There's no Drizzt after all......."

And now I see Zazu from Lion King in a cage singing while Scar looks on in glee imagining the death of the drow hero.

 

[lowkey13]

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[Majoru Oakheart]

I understood the point perfectly well. It's a question of representation. I never assumed the argument that you are now making (deserved?).

Yes you did. Your post said the words "(so popular he deserves to be everywhere)". Insinuating that Hussar was trying to convince everyone that Drizzt "deserves to be everywhere". My point was that I don't think anyone is trying to convince anyone that Drizzt deserves to be everywhere.

Yeah, I'm not buying this "I know a whole bunch of people" argument. Because most people "know a whole bunch of people" that have some passing idea of who he is because he is so popular, and because he is referenced, inter alia, in the core books. Again, it's very hard to understand people that both state, "You have to accept that people will love Drizzt, because he is so popular, and WoTC will keep pumping out tons of Drizzt stuff, because he is so popular, but at the very same time, it is not big deal, because of all of these unidentified people I know of that have absolutely no idea who this amazingly awesome and popular character is!" *smile* I get it- there probably exists people who love fantasy, and have never heard of Bilbo, but.... they are not very common.

Different people like different things. Anyone who does not read the novels doesn't know who Drizzt is. I had to explain who he was to 2 members of my Sunday group. The public play game I run on Tuesday is mostly casual players. My guess is that nearly half of them have never heard of Drizzt. They'll write off the very short description of him in the PHB off as an example of the kind of character you could make without having any idea he is even from a novel.

My point is that people who read his novels like him. Which is why they keep publishing more novels. But that the vast majority of D&D players don't actually read D&D novels. So he's popular among the group of people who read his book but that the idea that he is somehow so popular that his entire existence is disrupting every D&D table in the world is...hard to believe.

As for Bilbo, before the movies came out, the vast majority of my friends had no idea who he was. You might know a lot of people that are avid book readers and therefore more of them know about these characters.

Also, my point is that they AREN'T "pumping out a lot of Drizzt stuff". That he's popular enough to warrant having novels published and as a character he is probably the most well known D&D character. Which means you will find a mix of people who love him, hate him, and have never heard of him.

But people are claiming that it's impossible to play D&D without him being mentioned in every book and that somehow WOTC is attempting to shove him down our throats. People were threatening to boycott this adventure because he might appear somewhere in it.

What I'm saying is that all of that is full of crap and is the product of the imagination of someone who is so obsessed with their hatred over Drizzt that, when they see 2 mentions of him in 2 years, they think that counts as forcing him down our throats.

Oh, you're no fun. Hating is fun. Outrage can be fun. So long as you don't take it too seriously. You're not taking this too seriously, are you? Anyone can dislike something, but getting worked into a high dudgeon over something that is, essentially, both meaningless and a matter of taste? That's enjoyable. It's not like this is war in the Middle East.

The entire point is that hating IS taking it too seriously. That by using the word you are already saying "I'm taking this extremely seriously and I think it's important enough to hate. Everyone else should take this seriously too."

 

[lowkey13]

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[Hussar]

Well, I guess that if two random people from a Sunday group of yours (...that you haven't fought with yet...) haven't heard of Drizzt, then, um, wait, what? I suppose we could talk about representative sample sizes, etc., but I am again boggling at whatever conclusion it is that you are drawing. Why do people find it necessary to both claim that Drizzt is both insanely popular yet random people have never heard of him? I completely agree that there are people that have no familiarity with Drizzt- but they are few and far between. It is extremely hard to play D&D for any length of time and not know who he is. Would you care to suggest 5 characters with more name recognition in the D&D universe?

/snip

The irony is strong with this one. You want people to believe that Drizz't clones are a common occurrence based solely on your personal experience, but, apparently, other people's anecdotes don't count?

But, in any case, [MENTION=72717]Ex[/MENTION]ploder Wizard has the right of it. I never stated that Drizz't should appear more. My point is that in the TTRPG, he almost never appears. He appears in novels, sure. Apparently in novels he's very popular. But in the TTRPG of D&D? Virtually non-existent. So, in response to [MENTION=26510]SAN[/MENTION]crosanct's point about how Drizz't is everywhere, I'm just not seeing it.

Of course, I would assume that here we can reasonably banter about these types of things. For example, I am firmly in the "KILL EVIL DROW" camp, and the "R.A. Salvatore has come up with a way to make major bank out of publishing the same, bad, writing over and over again that appeals to emo teen angst," but that's my opinion. Drizzt is, to me, just dumbed-down wish-fulfillment Elric. But I am not the arbiter of all that is good (yet), and some people like him. And if it brings more people to the game, that's wonderful too.

Read more: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...Abyss-No-Drizzt-afterall/page13#ixzz3lBxi0bJ4

And here we have it. The typical geek elitism. The hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people who buy and read Drizz't novels, and have done so for about thirty years now, can't possibly have the sense of what makes a good novel, but, you, random Internet person, know exactly what makes a good novel and have unassailable taste.

 

[lowkey13]

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