Out with the old (Game design traditions we should let go)

[Lanefan]

Main cast of Breaking Bad.

Ah, thanks. Never watched it.

 

[Reynard]

It basically doesn’t work in real-time games. If you’re playing asynchronously, say via forum, email, post, snail mail, etc it works.

Sure it does. It works perfectly well in ensemble television, why wouldn't it work in an RPG? It might require some note passing or an occasional "why don't you two take a smoke break"* moments, but most of the time the PCs would be in the same place doing things while still scheming against one another.

The more I think about it, the more I want to explore this idea.

*I just signposted my age for you all, didn't I?

 

[overgeeked]

Sure it does. It works perfectly well in ensemble television, why wouldn't it work in an RPG? It might require some note passing or an occasional "why don't you two take a smoke break"* moments, but most of the time the PCs would be in the same place doing things while still scheming against one another.

The more I think about it, the more I want to explore this idea.

*I just signposted my age for you all, didn't I?

If you’re willing to sit and watch other people at the same table as you RP for hours on end while you do nothing but watch, knock yourself out. I have zero interest in that.

 

[loverdrive]

Sure it does. It works perfectly well in ensemble television, why wouldn't it work in an RPG? It might require some note passing or an occasional "why don't you two take a smoke break"* moments

I'll just quote Baker here:

Conventional wisdom: it's boring when your character's not in the scene.


Text from Dogs:

Like every social fun, playing Dogs in the Vineyard depends on constant feedback and demonstrated enthusiasm. When somebody says something cool, show it. When something's funny, laugh. When you have a suggestion, shout out. (I know, I know, duh, right? I only mention it because I've played other games where you didn't, y'know, do things like that.)

Also, to really deliver, the game shouldn't be isolated from your regular socializing, it should blend in. Chat about the game before and after, just like you would a book or TV show or movie. Chat about books and movies and catch up with each other, during! You can think of it as commercial breaks if you want, but tied to the social rhythms of your little group, not on TV's 15-minute cycle. If the game's worth playing, it'll draw your attention back in. Interspersing some time of just hanging out like friends can be pretty effective for maintaining a pace, prolonging suspense, and giving payoff moments real punch, so don't worry too much about digressions.

...

Your game will have an overall story, made up of the interwoven individual stories of your characters. If it's not as fun and engaging as the best TV shows, I haven't done my job.

 

[Reynard]

If you’re willing to sit and watch other people at the same table as you RP for hours on end while you do nothing but watch, knock yourself out. I have zero interest in that.

Where is "hours on end" coming from? I mean we already do this regularly. People have moments and scenes your character isn't involved in. That's not new or unusual.

 

[overgeeked]

Where is "hours on end" coming from? I mean we already do this regularly. People have moments and scenes your character isn't involved in. That's not new or unusual.

We don’t do that. At worst you have to wait a bit for your turn in combat while playing rules-heavy combat-focused games. In most team-based RPGs there are at most vignettes that don’t include most of the players. If the referee is worth their salt they’ll keep these to a minimum, keep them short and sweet, and not let players spotlight hog.

 

[Grendel_Khan]

If you’re willing to sit and watch other people at the same table as you RP for hours on end while you do nothing but watch, knock yourself out. I have zero interest in that.

The right system mitigates or avoids this issue. FitD and PbtA, for example, are practically designed to support PCs being split up constantly, because you make very few rolls (if any) per scene. Importantly, that goes for combat too.

The result is pretty great. Opens up way more genres and types of narratives.

 

[Reynard]

We don’t do that. At worst you have to wait a bit for your turn in combat while playing rules-heavy combat-focused games. In most team-based RPGs there are at most vignettes that don’t include most of the player. If the referee is worth their salt they’ll keep these to a minimum, keep them short and sweet, and not let players spotlight hog.

You never have private scenes in your games, where one character meets an old friend or another has to talk to the head of their guild or whatever?

 

[loverdrive]

To be honest, "spotlight hogging" doesn't seem like a problem to me. I mean, you want spotlight -- you take it. "Meanwhile, at Kardak's hideout...", gesture at the game master as if "go on" and puff!

If somebody is being silent, I assume they don't have anything to say. Expecting other players (GM included) to read your mind and hand spotlight to you doesn't seem like a particularly bright idea to me.

 

[Reynard]

Pacing is definitely one of the main jobs of the GM so they do need to be cognizant of too much time spent not engaging all the players* but that doesn't mean you can't spotlight.

*This distinction is important and there are tools and techniques to engage players even if their characters aren't involved.