"over there somewhere" (Listening for Invisibles)

[Magus Coeruleus]

Hey folks.

DMG p. 78 says that a successful Listen check against an invisible opponent (that does not beat the DC by 20, allowing a pinpoint), let's a character "hear an invisible creature 'over there somewhere.'"

How would you define "over there somewhere"? This is a serious issue because you might want to use an area effect spell (e.g. fireball) against such an opponent, and you wouldn't need to pinpoint the location to get the bastard in the blast, but you'd need them within the range of the burst.

Here's what I'm thinking so far:

A successful Listen check that doesn't pinpoint should let you know that the invisible creature is somewhere within a circle of radius R. The DM should take the invisible's actual location as a starting point, and construct a circle of radius R around it. The "over there somewhere" circle should also be of radius R, but its center is randomly determined from the squares within the circle center on the invisible's actual location.

Does this sound right so far? If so, what do you think that R should be?

I put this in D&D Rules rather than House Rules in case there's something in the rules that should help out here, but if there isn't and this becomes a House Rule issue, please feel free to move the thread, moderators/administrators.

Thanks!

 

[shilsen]

I think that it should be vague , just like the phrase "over there somewhere". If you use a Listen check to detect an invisible foe, it's perfectly valid for the DM to say that you're pretty sure there's someone/thing invisible moving around to your left. Q: Where, exactly? A: You can't be sure. Now if you did beat the DC by 20, you know exactly where it is. Constructing circles of certain radii and working out random positions within it is just too much time wasted and a little too precise for a Listen check, in my opinion.

 

[pontus]

I'd define "over there somewhere" as "You heard something somewhere from the north of you. You have no real idea of how close or far from you the source of the sound was."

 

[DungeonKeeperUK]

Yup, I'd agree with teh last 2 posts.. "Over there" to me would mean kind of to your left, right, in front, behind....
It would then be up to the spell wielder to take a chance at where to fire off the spell should they so wish

 

[dr_nukem]

yeah...just cast that fireball...over there...

(sorry, couldn't resist)

 

[Plane Sailing]

I would say that if you are within reach of the invisible person, any kind of "over there" becomes "right there", and you could attack them with the normal 50% miss chance for full concealment.

If they are not within reach, then you should give a bearing, but not a range (human ears, for instance, are great at detecting the direction a sound comes from - presumably from computing the difference between the sounds arrival time and stuff at each separate ear?). This would allow an archer or fireballer to guess a target square along that line and shoot at it. The archer gets to roll to hit if he guesses exactly right. The fireballer will have a better chance since his fireball will burst over 8-9 squares on that line. Lightning bolt is great for these circumstances...

(remembering that listen is only a class skill for rogues, rangers, barbarians and monks +/- bards... so the wizards won't have such a good listen skill to take great advantage from this!)

Cheers