Overlapping and Stacking False Life

[FrankTrollman]

Skip Williams once said that when you had more than one copy of Protection from Fire up and got hit with a fire attack, you reduced both copies of Protection from Fire.

That's pretty much exactly the same idea as temporary hit points. So if you buy Skip's reasoning (which is, btw, "because I said so."), then it should apply to False Life as well.

Of course, that's not actually what the rules say - the rules essentially have the non-stacking bonus inactive until the larger bonus ends - but that is what Skip Williams says. If you think that the Sage is more important than the written rules, then this question is essentially answered. If you think the written rules override the Sage - this question is also answered - just not in the same way.

If you really want some fun: Temporary Hit Points from the same source stack. So a Wraith who hits someone and gains 5 temporary hit points can gain 5 more temporary hit points the next round by hitting someone else. So I can't see any reason why you couldn't just cast a bunch of False Lives, one after another. But if you instead replace an Aid and a False Life - then the quandary remains.

-Frank

 

[Philip]

See it like this, if you get a Strength bonus (from two Bull's Strength's for example) and you receive ability damage to your Strength score, your strength drops, because the ability damage does not affect the spell, the spell affects your ability, and your abi+ity gets affected by the ability damage.

There is no subtraction from False Life's effect when you take damage, its a subtraction of temporary hit points. Its just too bad that temporary hit points are always subtracted first....

 

[FrankTrollman]

There is no subtraction from False Life's effect when you take damage

That's not true. When you run out of temporary hit points from false life, the spell is discharged.

Therefore it very much is subtracting from False Life. And that's why it is different from Bull's Strength and Scorpion Venom. Bull's Strength does not discharge when you run out of extra strength.

-Frank

 

[The Souljourner]

When you run out of temporary hit points from false life, the spell is discharged.

Exactly. Thank you, Frank. That's what I said in the first post.

-The Souljourner

 

[allenw]

I also note that temporary hit points gained from being on the Positive Material Plane definitely stack, hence the eventual exploding.

I'm not sure I buy that temporary hit points never stack.
I know that this has been discussed in detail before, but I don't recall seeing anyone bring up this point:
Per the MM, a monster that drains ability scores "gains 5 temporary hit points (10 on a critical hit) whenever it drains an ability score no matter how many points it drains. Temporary hit points gained in this fashion last for a maximum of 1 hour." And for Energy Drain, "a draining creature gains 5 temporary hit points (10 on a critical hit) for each negative level it bestows on an opponent. These temporary hit points last for a maximum of 1 hour." The words "whenever" and "each" certainly make it *seem* like temporary hp gained from multiple attacks stack.
I also note the following similar-implication text from the Vampire Spawn descriptions:
"Blood Drain (Ex): A vampire spawn can suck blood from a living victim with its fangs by making a successful grapple check. If it pins the foe, it drains blood, dealing 1d4 points of Constitution drain each round. On each such successful drain attack, the vampire spawn gains 5 temporary hit pints." (Presumably they mean "points," though pints may also be involved. )
"Energy Drain (Su): Living creatures hit by a vampire spawn’s slam attack gain one negative level. The DC is 14 for the Fortitude save to remove a negative level. The save DC is Charisma-based. For each such negative level bestowed, the vampire spawn gains 5 temporary hit points."

Based on this, while I'm convinceable that temporary hp from spells such as Aid and False Life might not stack, I'd rule that those from "drain" attacks (including the Vampiric Touch spell) *do* stack.

 

[ovrzls]

I have this issue in my game. My player chose Fiendish Vigor and feels strongly that False Life should stack. The fundmental issue I have with this is how this would be game breaking as he can continually cast False Life with no cost and would never feel any risk in adventuring. So as I am DM the stat doesn't stack and replaces the previous cast. Also, I think of it as I would a potion of giant strength. If I have 18 strength and drink the potion the bonus I get is not in addition to my strength but replaces.

I feel it doesn't correlate to leaching effects such as Wraiths, etc that are absorbing life force in a supernatural sense.

Ultimately it's about the story and I think if the risk is too muted than the engagement is dulled...also I'm old.

 

[CapnZapp]

17 year old thread resurrection