Overuse of monsters and magic.

[Lord Zardoz]

The fantastical is overrated, I think. When present, it can make the setting seem more convincing, and enhance player experience.

But I think that in all but the most role play heavy games, the fantastical has been strapped down and sacrificed on the altar of convenience and fun. Your players have probably read the PHB cover to cover, as well as a bunch of splat books. You can be nearly certain that they know better than you which magic items will enhance their characters. If they frequent these boards, they may have participated in various "Smack Down" threads and debated frequently about the trade off one how much Power Attack is optimal.

Given that, reigning in the fantastical is a bit more difficult than it is worth.

What you can do is avoid the obvious. Dragons should not be mounts. They are essentially the top of the food chain, and very prideful. Even a lawful Good Dragon will probably make demands on the loot for their hoard. But worrying about magic street lights? I do not think it is a big deal.

Just avoid handing out the following on demand:

- Any item with a bonus better than +2
- Wands with spells better than Level 3

And avoid making the following show up very often if at all
- Holy Avengers
- Inteligent Weapons or otherwise sentient items
- Staff of the Magi scope items
- Legacy items
- Artifacts

END COMMUNICATION

 

[Valiant]

Shil wrote -Which, of course, means that the discovery of such a sword would be exciting and interesting even if the PCs have seen many +1 swords. That's basically what I'm trying to point out. You can have a game world where some magic is common and well known to PCs and simultaneously have magic which is uncommon and unknown to the PCs.

OK, then we are in agreement.

 

[shilsen]

Shil wrote -Which, of course, means that the discovery of such a sword would be exciting and interesting even if the PCs have seen many +1 swords. That's basically what I'm trying to point out. You can have a game world where some magic is common and well known to PCs and simultaneously have magic which is uncommon and unknown to the PCs.

OK, then we are in agreement.

In that case - welcome to the dark side

Anyway, that's why I originally said that I didn't agree with the conclusion in your original post. If you have a game world where some magic is common and well known to PCs and some is uncommon and unknown, then PCs being able to buy the common and well known magical items from a shop isn't going to devalue the rare and unusual pieces that are found/encountered while adventuring.

 

[Valiant]

I suppose my biggest gripe is with designers using magic or monsters as "technology" to create a different general feel of the setting.

 

[JDJblatherings]

For instance, the overuse of Dragons (everyone having one to ride on in our high level games) turned dragons (once a cool creature bringing images of Smog into ones mind) into little more then domestic flying battle horses. After that we never thought of Dragons the same......

Or do you disagree with this assessment?

Did everyone subdue their own dragon? Did they buy them at Dragons R-Us? Or did the DM drop the ball forgettign that dragons are scheming, selfish and powerful creatures.
That dragon mount should be expensive and dangerous. normal folks shouldn't treat them like they are normal...how relaxed would yuo be if a bunch of forreign mercanaries landed a half dozen armed helicopters in yuo local supermarket parking lot? How relaxed would yuo be if yuo knew they were magically powered cunnign beings that could breath fire (and other things)?

Treat it like it's boring and it is boring, treat it like it is special and it stays special.

 

[AllisterH]

I suppose my biggest gripe is with designers using magic or monsters as "technology" to create a different general feel of the setting.

That's more of designers simply thinking things through. I mean, given that continual light has been a constant since 1E, why aren't most cities lit up by these?

Basically, the more I think about it, the more I realize Imp et al are on the rigt track. We need more *fluff* a.k.a random magical places/spells/events that the PCs can't do.

Of course, this has its own problems as it turns the PC's magic into basically technology.

re: +1 sword.
The only way to get rid of pluses would be for the DM to keep track of the sword, which in of itself, is another DM headache.

 

[shilsen]

I suppose my biggest gripe is with designers using magic or monsters as "technology" to create a different general feel of the setting.

Again, why does it bother you what other people do? It's not as if they come over to your house and beat you till you have to use their setting, is it? There are lots of designers out there who design things that I don't care to use, but if someone else gets some good use out of it, I don't begrudge them that pleasure. Similarly, when I hear about people playing the game in a manner that I wouldn't enjoy, I don't care in the least, since that doesn't impinge at all on my ability to play the game as I want. And I absolutely don't expect that WotC should be crafting D&D to suit my personal preferences.

So why does it bother you how other people play the game? I really am curious.

 

[Valiant]

Shil, I could care less what people do at their own tables. What I do care about however, is the general trend of most publishers to produce non-classic fantasy (which is trendier). Leaving the smaller publishers to support us (I suppose we are the minority).

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I suppose my biggest gripe is with designers using magic or monsters as "technology" to create a different general feel of the setting.

I can see how that can be distasteful, but I think it is a bit of an overgeneralization that it is always a bad thing.

I think the problem comes in when the designer/author fails to "create a different general feel of the setting."

The magic "technology" should be employed to create a memorable setting that feels novel, rather than a minor schtick that emulates modern life. Cloud cities, air ships, dragon-mounted knights, and globes of continual light floating through the streets makes for a fine starting point for a setting. Continual lights at every street corner and levitating platforms in tall buildings not so much.

 

[Valiant]

I can see how that can be distasteful, but I think it is a bit of an overgeneralization that it is always a bad thing.

I think the problem comes in when the designer/author fails to "create a different general feel of the setting."

The magic "technology" should be employed to create a memorable setting that feels novel, rather than a minor schtick that emulates modern life. Cloud cities, air ships, dragon-mounted knights, and globes of continual light floating through the streets makes for a fine starting point for a setting. Continual lights at every street corner and levitating platforms in tall buildings not so much.

BTW I don't mind any of this as a 1 shot deal. The occasional "fantastic" is fine. Its when these things become the norm among publishers (as they scamper trying to outdo each other) that the problems begin, and the player is left with a world with magic lightbulbs, magic cars, magic power boats, etc. etc. Thats why alot of the guys that still play 1E that I know just make up their own stuff (or replay the early TSR classic modules) and don't bother posting on boards like this. They are an almost totally unsupported segment (save for a handful of really super small publishers).