D&D 4E Owen Stephens Thoughts on 4e

I am not now, nor have I ever been, Owen Stephens

1) Sorry for the typo. Or 1337 speak, if you read the 3 as an E :)

2) There seems to be a tad bit confusion in this thread from a few folks as to who wrote that. I am not Owen Stephens. I have never met or spoken with Owen Stephens. I just read Owen's LiveJournal, because I find his posts to often be interesting and insightful. And, he is a good writer, and contributed to many fine RPG products. So what you read above was just me re-posting Owen's LJ entry. Owen however wasn't even aware I was posting this thread, so asking him questions about his LJ in this thread (as opposed to, say, at his LJ) probably won't result in an answer from him. However, I am going to post to his LJ and let him know about this thread, so perhaps he will drop by (and maybe not, since he is a busy guy).
 
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Mistwell said:
2) There seems to be a tad bit confusion in this thread from a few folks as to who wrote that. I am not Owen Stephens. I have never met or spoken with Owen Stephens. I just read Owen's LiveJournal, because I find his posts to often be interesting and insightful. And, he is a good writer, and contributed to many fine RPG products.

Not on that list is the core rulebook for Star Wars Saga Edition, where he was other major author with Gary Sarli and Rodney Thompson.
 

Hey folks.

Mostly I had planned on keeping my 4e thoughts on my blog, so anyone who actually cared could come read them, and anyone who didn’t wouldn’t have to scan through them. But, since it got posted here, i thought I’d make an appearance. I posted a follow-up there already, and that covers most of what I have to say.

Yes, I’m being somewhat vague. Sorry, that’s just how it is going to be. I can say I like what i see. I think I’m going to find races of different power sets easier to create and run in 4e. It looks like my players are going to have more fun in 4e. When thinking of new campaigns to run, my brain now thinks in terms of 4e.

For lots of reasons I can’t go into details. That means most anything I say is either going to make no sense, or is going to sound like a teaser. So I do apologize for not being able to talk specifics. All I wanted to say was, I have seen and played the game, and after careful consideration. it smells like good D&D to me.
 

eleran said:
Did you read the letter from Andy Collins explaining the reason for the pro-only comments from Ari and Jon?

Yes, I did read it.

Mr. Collins said if you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all.

I say that if you can't say anything meaningful, don't say anything at all.
 

OStephens said:
Hey folks.

Mostly I had planned on keeping my 4e thoughts on my blog, so anyone who actually cared could come read them, and anyone who didn’t wouldn’t have to scan through them. But, since it got posted here, i thought I’d make an appearance. I posted a follow-up there already, and that covers most of what I have to say.

Yes, I’m being somewhat vague. Sorry, that’s just how it is going to be. I can say I like what i see. I think I’m going to find races of different power sets easier to create and run in 4e. It looks like my players are going to have more fun in 4e. When thinking of new campaigns to run, my brain now thinks in terms of 4e.

For lots of reasons I can’t go into details. That means most anything I say is either going to make no sense, or is going to sound like a teaser. So I do apologize for not being able to talk specifics. All I wanted to say was, I have seen and played the game, and after careful consideration. it smells like good D&D to me.

Thank you.

I appreciate hearing this, vague as it is.

"...I like what I see." "It looks like my players are going to have more fun in 4E." "It smells like good D&D to me."

Just what I was hoping to hear. I can wait until later to hear about the inevitable problems, limitations, and irritations. It's just a game system; the more divergent it is, the more problems I expect will be uncovered (even after it is released).

After it's actually released, I'll take a 'taste' myself and decide whether I'd rather play in the third or the fourth edition.
 

Wolfspider said:
Yes, I did read it.

Mr. Collins said if you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all.

I say that if you can't say anything meaningful, don't say anything at all.

there is critics, and critics.

A look at the current geek rage war show that many just can't make constructive critics.
 


His most recent post (post 2 of 2):

The Longest 4e Post I'll Make Before August

So, as a freelance game designer I frequently walk a razor's edge whenever I talk about products that haven't been released yet. One reason for that is that until it's in print, it can change. That means both that I may have power to influence things I think need refinement, and that things I think are really cool may be altered without me knowing in advance.

A really simple example I still remember is an issue with the Rebellion Era Sourcebook, and of my early Star Wars projects. I wrote stats for every starfighter to show up in the original trilogy. A-Wings, B-Wings, TIE Interceptors, everything. Then I added a bunch of things from the Expanded Universe for the same timeframe. Then I added a few new ones of my own, and talked about how all these ships all were seen, treated, and used during the Galactic Civil War. I was very proud of that work, which took several pages.

In-between when I finished my share of that book, and when I saw the final version, I went to Gen Con. And when fans asked me about that book, which had been announced, one of the things I told them was how great the starfighter section was. Now, I was a junior designer. I didn't have permission to say that. But it was Gen Con, I got excited, fans actually mobbed me, and I just picked it as the one thing I'd blurt out as a "secret."

Feel free to pick up the book. I'm still very proud of it. But if you want my starfighter write ups, you're out of luck. There wasn't room for them. They got cut. I found out the day -after- Gen Con. And, I learned my lesson.

I can't go into detail not because there is some massive corporate conspiracy to hide my opinion, but because any detail I reveal could be tweaked before the book comes out. I've seen things change already, and I bet I'll see more. I may even be responsible for a change, if I make a suggestion the Wizards folks like.

But I am also a freelancer. I need to drum up work from people other than Wizards to meet my personal goals for the year. Since I am working on 4e projects, Wizards kindly, and without any pressing need to, gave me and a few other people permission to reveal we're working on game products for 4e and talk a little but about our impressions. I appreciate that courtesy. I like the folks at Wizards, and I'm pretty sure they like me, but they didn't have to do this. Having received special, specific permission to reveal I'm a 4e freelancer, I don't want to do anything that's unprofessional in response. That would be rude.

So, no details from me. Good or bad, whether I like them or not, specific details just aren't what I'm going to be talking about here. I know from experience things can mutate, and I'm not taking that heat for this big a project. If Mike Mearls wants to reveal a game mechanic, he's in a much better place to see what is unlikely to transform under any circumstances. And, that's what he's paid for. I'm not, so I'm mum on that kind of thing.

However, it's also unprofessional to give anything but my honest opinion even if it's light on specifics. That would be lying, to fans and to other designers who may read my thoughts. It could do a lot of damage if the stars were aligned right. (Most likely to my reputation – don't think I believe I can bring down a game with a casual untruth.) I have been at this for quite some time, I have been talking about games before they come out for nearly a decade now. I hope the fact that my opinion on the EverQuest RPG, Gamma World, Black Company, Thieves World, Dragon Magic, and Star Wars Saga Edition remain consistent before and after their release is a reasonable show of good faith.

So, I want to talk about this game, both because I enjoy it and because I want potential employers to know I'm up to speed on it. That is my ulterior motive, to get more work from people -other- than Wizards. But I can't talk about any particular items not common knowledge, and I -double- can't talk about anything I know is notably subject to change. What does that leave me?

Yes, the game is fun. That's important to me. When I first got hold of the 3e playtest rules, I was convinced it wasn't going to feel like D&D. I had been running a 2e D&D game with more houserules than book rules for years, and to me -that- was D&D. I remember turning to my best friend and fellow DM Carl and saying "Well it's cool, but I don't know if it's D&D." But it looked fun, so I decided to give it a try. And after playtesting it, I just wanted to play it. And then I wanted to play it more than my houseruled game. And then it defined what D&D was for me, and I realized 3e did what I wanted D&D to do better than 2e, or 1e, or the hybrid thing I had created with Dragon articles and houserules. That all came from seeing the game was fun. But can you imagine if I had been allowed to talk about it, and I had said "I don't know if it's D&D?"

Wizards has said straight conversions from 3.5e to 4e are going to be tricky, and I understand why. Once you have the books, you'll understand why. I have 16 linear feet of bookshelf space dedicated to 3.x D&D. It's a great game. I love it. I play it a lot. I have several campaigns. Given how much I have invested in it, yeah I may still play some 3.x D&D even after 4e comes out. But that's free. I have those books.

I am looking forward to -getting- more 4e stuff. To expand what tools I have for 4e with the thoughts and ideas of others. If I could, I'd do it now. And this is largely because when I ran my first playtest, the character everyone thought was coolest was my wife's 1st level dragonborn fighter. Some of that was roleplaying of course, my wife was clever, funny and made tactically interesting choices. But the game gave her more to work with than if she'd tried that character in 3e. And the players -all- told me they felt more heroic than their last D&D game. Not more powerful, not more anime, just more heroic. And then when I got to play a dwarven cleric in a later game, I saw what they meant.

Yes, to play 4e a lot I'm going to have to start new campaigns. That's fine, no campaign of mine lasts forever anyway. And the 4e material I already have makes me itch with new campaign ideas. My computer already has folders of names, nations, ideas, and pictures for me to use once I get to that point. The way races are handled excites me, and makes me think ideas I couldn't make work in 3e because of ECL problems will work fine in 4e. The way classes are put together sparks my imagination with rules for regional and style-based specializations. The player in me wants to see if I can make that character who used to be a bad multiclass choice. The designer in me wants to put out pdfs of quirky rule variants and expansions. The DM in me wants to start a River Lords campaign. (Because that's the idea that most excited me right now - not because 4e has brilliant river rules.) (Which isn't to say it has bad river rules either!) (You know, I just like the name River Lords, and it'll fit the 4e set-up the way I plan to run it, that's all.)

Yes, it's different. Yes, I am sure there are thing I would have done differently. Heck, I houserule almost every game I run, I'm sure there are things I -will- do differently. But I think it's going to be a lot of fun, and I believe that strongly enough to plan a game I can't run yet, and to budget money for books I can't buy yet.

If you've got questions for me, feel free to ask them. But if they involve details, chances are I just can't answer them. If you just want to hear my professional opinion... yeah. I think 4e is a better version of D&D than 3e. That's not a slam on 3e. I love 3e. I was really resistant to the whole idea of 4e for a long time. But the rules have won me over. My ideas, now, are 4e ideas. For my play style, for my DMing style, I believe 4e is going to produce more fun games.

Thanks for listening.
 
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OStephens said:
Hey folks.

Mostly I had planned on keeping my 4e thoughts on my blog, so anyone who actually cared could come read them, and anyone who didn’t wouldn’t have to scan through them. But, since it got posted here, i thought I’d make an appearance. I posted a follow-up there already, and that covers most of what I have to say.

Yes, I’m being somewhat vague. Sorry, that’s just how it is going to be. I can say I like what i see. I think I’m going to find races of different power sets easier to create and run in 4e. It looks like my players are going to have more fun in 4e. When thinking of new campaigns to run, my brain now thinks in terms of 4e.

For lots of reasons I can’t go into details. That means most anything I say is either going to make no sense, or is going to sound like a teaser. So I do apologize for not being able to talk specifics. All I wanted to say was, I have seen and played the game, and after careful consideration. it smells like good D&D to me.

Thanks for the heads-up, sir!
 

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