D&D 4E Paizo and 4e - Vive le Revolution!

[Rechan]

Just remind them that evolution is an uncertain progress and sometimes a seemingly advanced species dies off when its particular, short lived ecological niche dries up and the species that originally spawned it, far older in geological terms, continues on only slightly the worse for wear from the short term upset.

Or if you want less of a mouthful, say "Mutation".

 

[catsclaw227]

It's amazing how often this "evolve" nonsense is thrown out by defenders of new editions.

ME: Why do we need a 3.5? I just bought 3.0 three years ago!
THEM: Dude, the game evolves.

[huge, massive, disgusted eyeroll]

I look at 4e more as a new incarnation, not necessarily an evolution. The d20 rules are there, but there are some fairly significant changes that it's a new edition of D&D. I think 3.5 was an evolution. 4e is a new edition.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

You know, that is one thing that has irritated me for years (long before 4e), how every time a company releases a new product that may or may not be an improvement, they describe it as "evolution", implying that all change is good and all new editions of a game are part of a natural progress curve moving steadily up towards utopia.

It's amazing how often this "evolve" nonsense is thrown out by defenders of new editions.

ME: Why do we need a 3.5? I just bought 3.0 three years ago!
THEM: Dude, the game evolves.

[huge, massive, disgusted eyeroll]

Others have pointed it out, but I repeat in my own words:
Evolution is not per se good or bad. It is based on things (living things) changing, and the changed things being better at surviving - but this is only for the time and place the live in. If the place changes where they live, the changed thing might not suddenly no longer be that viable, and die again.
These changed things (being living) also reproduce, which gives them the oppertunity to mix and match their traits, thus further creating something that is "fitter" in the given enviromnent.

What evolution means in the context of a game:
1) It is based on something that existed before.
2) Some aspects changed, these changes can be best described as 3rd edition supplements and variant d20 based games in our scope.
3) Some of these changes (supplements, variant player handbooks and so on) were better recieved than others.
4) The changes are recombined in a new edition (the different mutations combine and produce off-spring)

Now, as in evolution, this doesn't work out perfectly and all the time. The environment (the players) might have changed. Maybe some combinations don't work as well together as they did alone.
But most likely, the new generation will be a bit better adapted. At least for a while. Sometimes, the new generation might actually fill a smaller niche then before. Or it might fill a bigger one. Or just a slightly different one.

 

[psionotic]

I'm still waiting for someone at Wizards to clue us in on when third parties are going to start getting 4e materials so that they can get to work... Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

 

[The Little Raven]

I'm still waiting for someone at Wizards to clue us in on when third parties are going to start getting 4e materials so that they can get to work... Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

Such information probably falls under an NDA and we won't know until those lucky 3rd parties announce 4e products.

 

[Glyfair]

Such information probably falls under an NDA and we won't know until those lucky 3rd parties announce 4e products.

I can see how WotC might want to avoid that. Imagine if 3rd parties started announcing that they had the information and your 3rd party didn't get the information. We'd start seeing posts about how their company is better or more important than this other company that go it.

 

[GVDammerung]

I'm still waiting for someone at Wizards to clue us in on when third parties are going to start getting 4e materials so that they can get to work... Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

And herein lies another reason for Paizo or any 3rd party publsher to consider a 3.75 edition.

It is no secret that Hasbro's legal department would not have supported the 3x d20 license and OGL. I find it rather hard to imagine that the 4e d20 license and OGL will be as "generous" as the 3x versions. If this is correct, those 3rd party publishers who have no contingency plans in case the 4e d20 license and OGL prove overly problematic will be in a world of hurt having failed to have a B Plan ready to go in a timely manner.

Simply continuing to support the 3.5 edition is, IMO, an okay but suboptimal B Plan as 4e will have the cachet that goes with being "new and improved" by whatever measure. To best succeed, a B Plan should IMO include a "new and improved" aspect too. Hence, Edition 3.75.

Ultimately, I'm reminded of the old saying "If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes." Paizo has intimate experience with Wotc, having had to clear every issue of Dungeon and Dragon with them and abide with their decisions on things like Age of Worms hardbacks etc. Maybe Paizo is tired of the view. Maybe they can see an opportunity with a 3.75 edition to be the "lead dog" of their own rules set.

For the reasons I initially outlined, I think there is an opportunity for a 3.75 edition and now is the time to make it happen. The uncertain nature of the 4e d20 license and OGL only further suggests planning for such is a prudent thing. If you wait and are disappointed by the details of the 4e d20 license and OGL, it may too late to effectively move on a 3.75 edition.

 

[Vigilance]

I'm still waiting for someone at Wizards to clue us in on when third parties are going to start getting 4e materials so that they can get to work... Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

We might not get one pre-release. There wasn't a pre-release SRD for 3rd edition, though there were for 3.5 and d20 Modern.

We might have to work from the books for awhile under a gentlemen's agreement.

 

[psionotic]

We might not get one pre-release. There wasn't a pre-release SRD for 3rd edition, though there were for 3.5 and d20 Modern.

We might have to work from the books for awhile under a gentlemen's agreement.

Sure, there is no way that the SRD will be available pre-release. But I think that the current first draft of the phb and all of the playtest materials could be sent to (at a minimum) the top five or so third parties so they can get started, even if they will have to make some changes later.

They'd have to NDA the hell out of it, maybe watermark a code onto each page of the file so they'll know who is to blame if someone posts it online, but there has to be some way for this to happen..?

 

[Michael Morris]

I'm still waiting for someone at Wizards to clue us in on when third parties are going to start getting 4e materials so that they can get to work... Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

January was the month kicked around at Gencon discussions. That's enough time for the smaller publishers but not enough for the larger ones. Now whether the larger publishers get an advance look remains to be seen.